Owner wants my desserts! But I have question

[cheftracy40]

I'm really excited right now because an owner of a new restaurant here wants to use my desserts in his establishment!! He wants my Sweet Potato Pie, Blueberry Pie, Bread Pudding and Red Velvet cake. Isn't there some type of contract to prepare for him so my desserts will be "protected"? Better yet, does anyone have a sample contract??

Thanks in advance!

[jbd]

My first thought was, "What are you protecting?" The products you listed are well known with many variations that are already published. As I see it, you will need to identify the specifics that make each recipe your creation as opposed to an already existing recipe. As an example, when I owned my bakery, I used a cream cheese icing on most of my cakes. In the beginning the recipe called for vanilla extract. At some point I was reading a cookbook from the UK and ran across a comment that lime juice added to dishes made with cream cheese would enhance the flavor of the cream cheese, so I replaced the vanilla extract with lime juice. IMO it was an improvement and my customers liked it as well. Did that make it my recipe? I didn't feel like it was my recipe. It was just a recipe I used with an adaption based on information from another person. Based on that information I also started using the lime juice in cheese cakes instead of vanilla as called for in the original recipe I had. I didn't feel that was my recipe either.

Are your recipes truly your unique creation or could the restauranteur find the same or very similar elsewhwere? Consider not only the ingredients but the technique or method of making the products as well.

If your products are locally renowned, even if they may not be truly your unique creation, I would agree that you need a contract to protect your financial and business image.

Best regards

jbd

[Tri2Cook]

What are you wanting to protect? You're supplying the desserts right? Not the recipes? If they were interested in doing desserts in house they wouldn't go to all the trouble of bringing your desserts in to steal them, they'd just find recipes they like or develop their own. Are you wanting advertising? Some sort of contract stating that they give you credit for making the desserts? Obviously, they wouldn't be obligated to agree to that (though they might if your desserts are very well known locally because it could benefit them as well in that case). I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to accomplish.

[chubyalaskagriz]

they are not actually ever "owned" or the "property" of anybody.

Commercial products that have been patented typically create a new groundbreaking process of "building" their product and that is actually what is copyrighted, not their recipe or the ingredients.

In the food world there is very little, if anything that has ever not been done before, or that isn't currently being done by many in some form or fashion.

This isn't intended against you personally so please don't be offended- but somewhere there's a decendent of the very first cook who made bread pudding, sweet potato pie or red velvet cake... if anyone is to be "protected" it seems it would be that original cook- not someone who took his recipe 200 years later, and may or may not have altered it to make it "his own".

[jibbster]

ChefTracy40,

Please let me know how this works out for you..you can PM me if you want. I am in a similar situation where I have been catering for about 9 years and now a couple of local restaurants are wanting me to do desserts for them. I'm not worried about protecting my recipies, but I would love to hear the logisitcs and what experiences you are having!

Mike

[cheftracy40]

Originally Posted by jibbster

ChefTracy40,

Please let me know how this works out for you..you can PM me if you want. I am in a similar situation where I have been catering for about 9 years and now a couple of local restaurants are wanting me to do desserts for them. I'm not worried about protecting my recipies, but I would love to hear the logisitcs and what experiences you are having!

Mike

Hello Mike!
I think previous posters misunderstood what I was trying to ask-or I phrased it wrong! I was wondering about how to protect the name of my business, not the recipes. I have recently found my answer: Trademark it.
The owner of this particular restaurant wanted to "test" my desserts, so I took in samples along with whole pies and he absolutely loved them and starting talking about me doing them starting next week.. So now, I'm searching online for sample contracts. Is this your situation also?

[chubyalaskagriz]

Many times restaurant owners turn to professional bakers, pastry chefs or home bakers for "normal" desserts for their menus- and also for extra-special "signature" desserts. In the case of the latter usually a contract of exclusivity is drawn up- no one else buys this particular dessert from you, and the owner gets the prestige of serving something lovely that can't be had at 50 other joints around town. In return the dessert provider gets to charge a much higher rate per portion or per cake/pie/dessert. Just something to keep in mind- should the opportunity arise for you.

[cheftracy40]

Originally Posted by chubyalaskagriz

Many times restaurant owners turn to professional bakers, pastry chefs or home bakers for "normal" desserts for their menus- and also for extra-special "signature" desserts. In the case of the latter usually a contract of exclusivity is drawn up- no one else buys this particular dessert from you, and the owner gets the prestige of serving something lovely that can't be had at 50 other joints around town. In return the dessert provider gets to charge a much higher rate per portion or per cake/pie/dessert. Just something to keep in mind- should the opportunity arise for you.

Thank you! That's what I was looking for!!

[cookie mama]

does this apply to writing a recipe book? I have been sitting on this idea for years. I have made so many variations of things that so many people I know love and begged for the recipe. I know of someone who after years still wants a recipe. I later found out she bakes for her brother's restaurant! That told me it was time I capitalized on my creations and continue to not give out my recipes.

[chubyalaskagriz]

...but I am a chef who has written small pieces that have enjoyed limited publication in both this field and another, and I'm also nearly complete with my own cookbook/travel memoir that I will soon begin the formal query-letter/seeking-an-agent phase for. It is my understanding that recipes basically are not intellectual property that an individual really has any copyright ability or "ownership" over. Afterall, how can one realistically OWN something like " 1 c. of chocolate chips, 2 c. flour and 1 egg- mix like the dickens, bake 'til burnt". Other writings? Yes. Recipes? No. Because like it or not- no matter how "new and original" we ourselves feel these recipes are- someone, somewhere has likely made them their own long before we have- even if just accidentally.

Plus, a simple list of ingredients- and a few accompanying instructioins are not considered "original writing" enough to bear or warrant special protection. Afterall, how many "unique" recipes by famed folks like Martha, Ina or Emeril are published in their own beautiful books and then show up on the web the next day (or a week before) with one ingredient and 3 words just slightly off? For instance- as w/ the short recipe above, if a new writer uses that exact recipe but adds "a slight pinch of "buttlebuggerzactoid" does that then inherently change the recipe and make it "his"? Additionally- for instance in Martha's latest "Wedding Cakes" she offers a lovely photo and a basic recipe for a Red Velvet Cake. This recipe is identical to any hundred others one can google. There's nothing original about it at all. Yet this basic Red Velvet Cake recipe is not her's- and is not copyrighted in and of itself, per se. The whole entire writing project IS- but the recipe alone is NOT. Putting it between the covers of a book does not make it one's own property.

[jbd]

cheftracy40,
I did misunderstand what you were asking in the original post. I would think that maybe your best bet would be a consultation with a corporate lawyer, as opposed to a trial lawyer. I would think such a person could at least give you some ideas of what to have in a contract or even what to avoid having in a contract. Such a consultation may not cost more than $100 to $150. You may even have the lawyer write up the contract which would cost more but it would probably be better than some future problem based on a misunderstanding between you and the other person. Even with just the consultation you come away with enough information to sit down a write out a contract with the restauranteur without involving the lawyer any further. Regardless of how you come up with the contract it should be notarized.

I hope it all works out well!!

[chubyalaskagriz]

...but just to keep it real- keep this in mind, too- and this comes from a chef who's also managed many properties over the years. If desserts were THAT big of a priority to a restauranteur, they'd have their own pastry chef. Most of the time a restaurant's kitchen space is limited and the chef far roo busy with normal duties to be able to squeeze-in extensive efforts at a dessert menu. The 3 common options in this case are: 1.) purchase mediochre pre-made frozen desserts from any food supplier, 2.) only provide a basic dessert menu featuring simple things like cheesecake, ice cream and fruit pies, or 3.) hire them out. Hiring them out is the best quality substitute for many places. But still they don't want it to turn into some huge legal deal that requires far more time, effort and consideration than they're willing to give it. Bottom line? If desserts were the first priority- they'de have a pastry kitchen, a high dollar talented pastry chef and would build the remaining restaurant and menu around THAT. So obviously desserts are more often than not, lower priorty, or at least further down on the list of priorities. The logistics might be complicated on your end and require a lot to iron-out... but it'll be imperative to keep it simple up front with the restauranteurs and chefs a home baker ends up working with.

[jbd]

Very good point by chubyalaskagriz above

[panini]

forget property, no laws stick.
I'd be thinking about logistics! You're in a rush to identify this product as yoiur own, but what if you walk in one day and you get a piece of red velvet that the waiters cut with a steak knife and hasen't been wrapped properly for days. Want your name on that! What are you doing with stales. Who serving the desserts. Can't count the times I've tried this, even on a tri state level.
HANDELING!!!!!
We went on the internet last week and found numerous cakes of ours, on many sites including a couple of large ones.what can you do. paninicakes.com
My only account nows takes all my daily stales (which are still fine) and he runs them as chef's choice desserts of the next day.
pan

[ruben]

let me tell you a little story it goes like this.
i started doing the same deal as you are, never mind contract what i did was i started with three diferent cakes once they became used to them i introduced three diferent cakes and along i went until i supply 24 diferent cakes innovation is the name of the game they might try and copy two or three but never ever 24 diferent cakes so go on and start with three and move your way up
salud