Samples, how to be a standout? - Page 2

W.DeBord · #16 01-11-2002, 05:50 AM

Finally got thru to several decorators that have been vacationing first weeks of Jan.. I realized my price was too low. No one I respect is starting under 3.75 and most start over 4.00. The shops starting in the 2.00 range aren't my equals.
So I'm rethinking my pricing completely....I'm just going to give 1 base price (to qualify), and do the rest verbal per wedding qoutes.

I got a couple contracts from decorators on line. I haven't studied them throughly yet Panini. I know the basic points. Are their some issues that aren't obvious I should be cautious of?

Supprised that the better places charge for tastings. From 5. to 15. for a 6" one flavor cake, then deduct off bill if you buy from them. But I hardly call 1 flavor much of a tasting.....? Although I'm rather happy to see this. Even if you have a couple flavors on hand your still going thru some effort to present it. Also has to weed out some of people we used to deal with at the country club who wanted to 'taste' your whole menu for free.

Also supprised by how loose many places are about deposits. The upscale ones! One place holds dates with-out any! No one mentioned on the phone their billing structure, ie paid in full before delivery...
Another place doesn't need to talk details until 1 week before your wedding (they must not do any elborate decorations?).....

momoreg · #17 01-11-2002, 06:01 AM

In this area, even $4 a slice is unheard of for the higher end cakes. I'm glad you re-thought your prices. This is a great thread, BTW.

Anna W. · #18 01-11-2002, 09:46 AM

Wendy- there is an issue of In Style Weddings that just came out. Lots of pictures with prices listed. Now these are "famous" decorators and most are east or west coast. It is hard for most people in the mid-west to compete with these prices but there is one mid-west decorator in there from Columbus, OH (Jan Kish). It might be something you want to check out.

As far as samples go- I feel that free samples are about the cheapest advertisement you can get. I offer them (usually 2 or 3 but up to 4) and I have found that 80% of the people that taste will buy. This is a great return on your money. If they choose a flavor that they originally did not taste and want to confirm that it is exactly what they want then I sell them a 6" or 9" cake at a slightly discounted price. Out of the 80% that choose me, 75% of them offer me a deposit and sign a contract on the spot. Also, I find that the people with money (who can afford the high end cakes) like the "pamper" of it all. Just My Humble Opinion.

Just a comment regarding not needing the deposit a week before hand- they can not possibly be doing much custom work. Either that or they are able to hire so much help that they are just waiting for something to do...?

panini · #19 01-11-2002, 05:41 PM

Momo, Anna, M Brown, DeBord
I just wanted to let you all know that I find your post very interesting. I was just re-reading my posts and I come off like an authority.
I take the time to read all of your post and I usually find something to think about. This thread is very important for all of us in the business, so I think in the future I will just address specific points.
I think that if you are offering an upscale product you should offer a limited tasting for free. To us a tasting is to get people aquainted with the quality of our product, not necessarely the exact product. We build the cost of tasting along with all the other costs of doing business into the price. We are also fortunate that we have a selection of most of our cakes in napolean size on a daily basis.
Wendy, I post a lot of minutia so that it may trigger something for you in your planning. I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to run your business. Fact is, you will, as we did, probably change things up numerous times as different things come up. I'm very impressed in the time and energy you are giving this, I'm sure you'll be very sucessful. Lets talk liabilities,supply deposits, etc. another time.
jeff

Anna W. · #20 01-11-2002, 06:11 PM

Hey Panini- I love the exchange of information. Everybody has different ways of doing things and I like to see what I can 'tweek'. I am seriously considering the charging per tier instead of per slice. It makes a lot of sense. I appreciate all of you willing to share. And sometimes things that work in one part of the country don't necessarily work in another part (it is a BIG country). Thank you to everyone who is willing to share. This is a great forum- I have just discovered it recently and am much obliged.

momoreg · #21 01-12-2002, 07:07 AM

It is an excellent forum; I agree.

I appreciate anyone generous enough to share their experience. We all learn so much from each other, and panini, your input on subjects like these is valuable, because you ARE an authority on business ownership(among other things)--something that few of here know about first-hand.

panini · #22 01-12-2002, 07:55 PM

Here is something else,deposits on structural supports and supplies.
We factor this into our price. It does add up though. We always use 3/4 inch plywood for the bottoms. and plates and posts on every layer whether stacked or tiered. Closing out our year brings alot of things to think about. Our supply costs last year were around 8 % of total sales for the wedding side.
Most others in the area charge deposits. The thought behind this is to overcharge on the deposit and hope the client does not bring back supplies. We feel the deposit is such an added burden to the bride, to have to put someone in charge of this, that it is a large negetive to overcome.
Sophie is in favor of the deposit and I'm not. We have an agreement with most of the properties we work with but nothing in writing. Do we cater to the customer or do we charge and add approx. 20,000. to the bottom line?
Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated .
jeff

Anna W. · #23 01-13-2002, 08:05 AM

Panini- so you buy new supplies for every single cake- nothing is ever returned to you? Do your clients put a deposit down to secure the date?

I am a small business but when my customers put down a deposit ($100 for a cake under $400, $200 for a cake over $400) it is to hold the date and to cover equiptment. Because I severely limit the amount of cakes I do, I need to assure that they are not going to back out at the last minute. To compensate for the inconvenience to the bride, I offer to pick up the equiptment for a $20 fee.

I am glad to see that someone else uses plywood bases. What do you cover yours with? I cover mine with foam core and royal icing. I do not use pillars and plates if it is a stacked cake, I use foam core and drinking straws. Works great, it is less expensive, and easier to work with. I have done as many as five tiers and no problems.

panini · #24 01-13-2002, 04:31 PM

Anna,
No ,we reuse whatever we get back.
We do require a $100. to hold a date for cakes that are not within our contracts. All monies are due 14 days prior to the reception. In the years we have had only a few cancel, and those we knew were comming, just from the tasting. Sophie has gotten really good at sizing up clients.
We cover out boards with with a shelf type paper.
TO ALL
Comments:
What do you think about bridal coordinators or consultants?
What do you think about using you're best work for brochures and website?
What do you think about contracts?
When you say upscale, do you really want to cut out about 60% of the bridal dollars out there?
Which is better, cold call the FOH or BOH?
Does anybody think they can have a profitable and viable business doing wedding cakes alone?
Do you need liability insurance?
Is the homemaker working out of her home, going to hurt your business? I'm thinking about 30% of all cakes come from suzy.
Do you put these people out of business?
FEEL FREE TO START A THREAD ON ANY OF THESE.
PS. Not knocking the home baker, I will use suzy as a name for those doing cakes on the side out of an illegal home kitchen and getting paid.
pan

Anna W. · #25 01-13-2002, 04:50 PM

Panini-

Great questions to start a new thread. First I want to know if I qualify as a Suzy- I do work out of my home but it is legal. I have won contests against the best pastry chefs in my area and been highlighted in my local paper. I have also taught classes on gumpaste and other techniques (not Wilton). I do almost exclusively wedding cakes and am profitable. Although I am a small business I feel I am more proffessional than most 'professionals'. How would you categorize me?

(I am not trying to be defensive but have known people who discount my abilities just because I do not have a "shop" and am truly interested in your opinion.)

cape chef · #26 01-13-2002, 05:20 PM

Panini,Wendy,Anna,Momo and Michelle,
What an education this thread is for me. I wish my grandfather was still around to read this (he owned his bakerys for 70 years)

The energy and sharing here is wonderful.
cc

momoreg · #27 01-13-2002, 06:54 PM

I'll bet we could have learned a lot from him.

panini · #28 01-13-2002, 08:40 PM

Anna,
When I refer to a suzy, I'm talking about people who skirt the laws. If one follows all the local health regulations and code requirements, permits their kitchen so they can obtain ins. to protect the customer, takes all the necessary classes if required.Than I have the same respect for them as a any businessman. The experience, quality, workmanship has absolutely nothing to do with it.
This is a thread all by itself. Here it is not possible to have a home kitchen permitted to serve food to the public. There are so many people catering and baking out of their home its scary.
Anna,
If you have gone through all the same proceedures as those that have shops, then I'm not sure what their grip is.
jeff

W.DeBord · #29 01-14-2002, 07:14 AM

But how can you charge by the tier Anna? Unless your talking basic cakes and butter cream filling you have to add on for costs...

I understand how this has advantages, specially when it comes to serving size but doesn't it also open you up to more problems? I only found 1 decorator (so far) in my area charging this way. It also seems to me that it's better to do like others so the brides understand and can compare??NO?

What about decorators that break down their pricing to displayed cakes and a lower price for cake coming out of the kitchen in sheet cakes? If you price according to number of decorated cakes then I wonder if people keep their displayed cake really small and then serve most from the back. Aren't we asking for trouble here?

panini · #30 01-14-2002, 03:45 PM

Oh! That's another one. Have sheets cut in the kitchen and dummy up the layers. You will always see that crap in most all the articles written about" how to cut costs on your wedding". Our charges are always more for this service. These articles in bridal mags are written by someone without direct knowledge. Everytime I see this in ptint I always respond to the author and ask just what documentation they have for writing this. Have never received a responce.
Hey, that felt good