[Novi]

I am a current culinary student and I am absolutly floored to hear some of the comments about Culinary Grad students. I think that these students just kind of fell through the crakes. The person that couldn't make hollandaise sauce is amazing. My first quarter you couldn't pass unless you could make it, without breaking it, with in a small time frame. In the kitchen we mop everyday and are reminded constantly that this will be a part of the rest of our lives. I do however agree that this has alot to do with the schools them selves. All students are required to take a mandatory basic pastry class and it was very hard to deal with the people that were just there to get through and haveing to work with them was almost impossible, since Pastry is my field of study. It is very hard for people like me that work very hard and truely love this profession when there are so many others out there that just don't care. I see alot of 18 year olds comeing into the school because their parents say they have to go to college, so they figure culinary is an easy degree. It makes it hard for anyone with a true passion.

[reh-pastrychef]

I'm one of the lucky ones. My Dad and Mom Bought there first bakery when I was 3( 41 years ago). They are from Switzerland and I can say I learned from the best, and still learning. Dad at 80 loves the pastry. My point is that what they learn in school is nothing like the work place. I've be disappointed with almost everyone that's applied straight from come out of a culinary school. It's a tough call

[BenRias]

Wow Novi....I hope you weren't referring to my comment re not being able to make the sauce "for the life of me." That was more of a tongue in cheek comment regarding the relative ease of making something using school methods (or in my case home methods) versus doing it the way the chef wants it done. But the reality is, there is the school way and cook book way of doing things....then there is the way your chef wants it. If a right handed pitcher has an ERA of 1.00, there is no way in kelp that he will have an ERA of 1.00 if he switches to left handed pitching. Oh he can get to a 1.00 eventually, but it won't count until he is up against live batters.

I admit I had problems with making the sauce directly on a french top....when would I ever have had the previous opportunity to make the sauce on one? Never....who has a french top at home? But I worked my butt off to reproduce the sauce as my chef wanted it--school version be darned! And I am proud of rectifying my lack of skills.

School methods are great if you are lucky enough to find a chef who does things the exact way you were taught and your circumstances are ideal. But chances are that there are none out there. I still remember getting looked at by my sous as if I had lobsters coming out of my ears when, upon being asked to chop parsley, I asked "Squeeze the juice out or no?" Yup....great story. But my basic cookery chef taught us to ALWAYS squeeze the juice out of parsley. Yeah.....my sous just stopped, thought, and respectfully said, "Uh, no." And yet, OF COURSE I had to ask.....I wanted to do things their way. I just never thought that my innocent question would be SO FOREIGN in a live kitchen. School screws with your head and methods.

But again...I stand by my comments....without school, I would not have gotten my foot in the door. And yes, I was one of those serious ones like you.

[Novi]

Wow Novi....I hope you weren't referring to my comment re not being able to make the sauce "for the life of me." That was more of a tongue in cheek comment


Oh I in no way ment it that way. I just used it as a reference concidering the many things being said about the students. I completely agree with everything you said. Even by just seeing many of these same circumstances in the class room. I see so many people slip through the system with out even the basic knowledge needed in the indusrty. I feel that a big part of that is the student themselves. If they don't care you can't make them and the Chef's can only do so much. I do believe that there should be stricker rules to being excepted into culinary schools, money should not be the only guidline. The classrooms are filling so fast and so many people are able to slide through undetected.

[RAS1187]

I still chuckle about the culinary grad we hired that scaled every ingredient perfectly down to the exact 1 tbsp of salt.

I am led to believe that in the past, alot of schools required prior experience before enrolling. All it took me to get accepted was an answer to one question. "Are you sure that you want to cook? I mean youre not like ummm gonna wanna be a doctor or lawyer or something once I let you in?"

Also, I was disappointed in the lack of enforcement of rules. One student actually painted his house while wearing check pants. He showed up the next day with a big patch of blue behind his leg, the chef commented and asked him to wear a clean pair tomorrow. He didn't, and was never called out or disciplined. The blue patch became his "style" and he wore them to pretty much every class with no trouble.

When learning how to make something, we only touched over it once. I am a fan of learning by repitition. On the day for learning hollandaise, I kept breaking mine, got a C for the day, and we moved on. I never saw hollaindaise again until I got a job and had to make it pretty much for every shift.

Theres alot of inherent flaws that I feel are part of the "get their money, get them in, get them out" mentality of schools. They will say anything just to get that 45k

[chefpeon]

Theres alot of inherent flaws that I feel are part of the "get their money, get them in, get them out" mentality of schools. They will say anything just to get that 45k

That's exactly it. Usually there are no previous courses or experience you must have to get into culinary school. You just have to have the money. Or not have the money and get sucked into a loan that's nearly impossible to pay back on a cook's wages!

[ED BUCHANAN]

Again as I have said many times, "It is not the school. it's the person who is attending it"'

They all teach how to do it about the same way.(Basics) and same ingredients. Its how YOU pay attention and absorb the info, how YOU apply it, and how much further YOU want to go with it.

[Mikeb]

Originally Posted by ED BUCHANAN

Again as I have said many times, "It is not the school. it's the person who is attending it"'

They all teach how to do it about the same way.(Basics) and same ingredients. Its how YOU pay attention and absorb the info, how YOU apply it, and how much further YOU want to go with it.

For every decent cook that went to culinary school, there's a decent cook that didn't. You're right, it is the person. However culinary school doesn't seem to matter at all. A good cook will succeed with or without school.

[Trifoilum]

Originally Posted by Mikeb

For every decent cook that went to culinary school, there's a decent cook that didn't. You're right, it is the person. However culinary school doesn't seem to matter at all. A good cook will succeed with or without school.

A not-so-brilliant culinary student chiming in.

I kinda agreed; culinary school isn't -the- only one gate towards culinary success, ****, it probably isn't a good one, judged from most of people experiences' here -and- mine.

But aren't them the same as almost every other job? Every other job would be the same, I believe, saying that learning straight to the workplace is the better part of learning. Once you'll get into the field, your previously-gained knowledge will soon be disproved, warnings broken and boundaries passed. And vice versa.

But I wonder if culinary school is a waste of money altogether... I mean, it's a good place to -learn-. What matters is the will to learn, of course. What matters is each cook's personal goal and determination, yes, but aren't school giving that place to learn?

And OTOH, a huge gap but, would the workplace itself accept people who only has passion and eagerness to learn on their side?

[PeteMcCracken]

Take a look at: 6 Things Culinary School Won't Teach You - Chef's Blade, it might "open some eyes"!

[Trifoilum]

ooh, it's an interesting article and yes, a good reality check xD

I've seen similar article, about what Celebrity chef didn't / wouldn't tell you. I think it must already been posted here, somewhere... 10 Things Celebrity Chefs Won't Tell You

@Edit : but I digress.

Concerning the initial thread, I'm pretty sure it's just another useful lesson for the hopeful pastry chef and I'm glad the TC had been spared from losses. >_>;

[Blueicus]

Originally Posted by Trifoilum

A not-so-brilliant culinary student chiming in.

I kinda agreed; culinary school isn't -the- only one gate towards culinary success, ****, it probably isn't a good one, judged from most of people experiences' here -and- mine.

But aren't them the same as almost every other job? Every other job would be the same, I believe, saying that learning straight to the workplace is the better part of learning. Once you'll get into the field, your previously-gained knowledge will soon be disproved, warnings broken and boundaries passed. And vice versa.

But I wonder if culinary school is a waste of money altogether... I mean, it's a good place to -learn-. What matters is the will to learn, of course. What matters is each cook's personal goal and determination, yes, but aren't school giving that place to learn?

And OTOH, a huge gap but, would the workplace itself accept people who only has passion and eagerness to learn on their side?

Thing is, cooking is a very hands on job and one that is also very intuitive... as are many of the other arts/crafts. You can start work at a restaurant knowing nothing and peel some carrots, but to step straight into an engineering firm or a software development studio is a much different matter.

[Trifoilum]

Originally Posted by Blueicus

Thing is, cooking is a very hands on job and one that is also very intuitive... as are many of the other arts/crafts. You can start work at a restaurant knowing nothing and peel some carrots, but to step straight into an engineering firm or a software development studio is a much different matter.

I agreed with you completely. It still sounds pretty risky and somewhat scarier though, the way I imagine it : say, someone with eagerness to learn and -did- learn but didn't have the backing up of a basic cookery skill.

I imagined an angry Gordon Ramsay. >_>;

Of course, it's not the case most of the time, and there are various sources...
hmm. In the end the fault is at the person themselves and their unwillingness to learn from workplace, the way I see it.

[foodpump]

Originally Posted by Trifoilum

..... I believe, saying that learning straight to the workplace is the better part of learning.

Yes and No.....

Look, it is the school's mandate to teach, and it is the workplace's mandate to make money. Never foreget that.

There are restaurants that, say... will roast a prime rib rare, and then slice portions off, toss them in a pie plate with a little jus, and fire it off to the desired doneness. Not exactly by the book, but it is profitable, and it works. (sorta) Or instructing staff that "sauteing" actually means to toss watery aenemic pasta in tinned pasta sauce in a saute pan, or making "omelettes" on the flat-top, or.....

A school might teach about cooking, but forget to teach about planning ahead, economy of movement, or such mundane, everyday things such as cleaning a flat top--safely, cleaning out a fryer, or how exactly to operate a dishpit.

If you rely on one variety (school or the workplace) too much, you never get the proper balance. Each is important.

Hope this helps

[jessiquina]

i just have to get this out. one of my assistants drives me nuts. the worst thing that happened was when she was using a machine to grate carrots for carrot cake. the head chef saw her somehow get metal shavings in the cake and told her to start over.... of course i was confident that she could make carrot cake, so i wasnt babysitting her. when the chef told me, and when i found out that she DIDNT remake the cake, and the metal shavings were in the cake baking... i knew there was no future for her in this industry.
and she has the nerve to talk bad about me on her facebook page, where anyone can read it. these fresh culinarians think they are masters at their craft, and its really sad when they dont even know how to rewarm some buttercream so its suitable to frost a cake.