lets talk business

[panini]

Anna,
I never did find out, are you legal in the sence I described? I'm wondering because of the negetive coments from your competetors. If you have all the same overhead and expenseses as they do I'm against that.
I have to admit something though, I had a wonderful conversation with a women and husband working out of their home illegally. She unconsciously targeted me because she is in the same area. I waited till I had heard something from three of our clients about how she was trying to undersell us. We had actually lost a 2600. cake to her two weeks ago.
I called her and told her I needed to set up a time to come talk to her and her husband. Being very defensive of the little empire she had built over the last year, I explained that I really felt that I was being completely fair talking with them vs calling the authorities. A few cups of coffee and a few hours later I had come to find out that these were very nice people but just plain ignorant to the legalities and responsibilities of running a business for profit. I came prepared with paperwork to show them that it takes a small location like ours 90,000. in revenue to break even doing it the right way. Needless to say, they are working on becoming legal.
Jeff

[W.DeBord]

Unless they growum different down there in Texas Panini, I find it real hard to believe your illegal freinds plea of ignorance. You learn what you want to learn.


Thanks for the imput Fodigger! I'll do that as much as possible. I have names and stats for country clubs but I don't know where to find sources for hotels, banquet halls and restaurants. Any ideas? Otherwise I'll have to do my call ahead "what your owners name?" lengthening my process. Can I get names from the NRA?


Between my friends and family they choose my name,the cake artist . Hopefully it will be an easy name for my clients.

[panini]

Yea, you might be right. As long as they are not directly affecting me anymore and not jeopardizing people's health I can't waste anymore time on them.
Have you gotten your legal ducks in a row. Liability ins. will be something you might come up against with the hotels and halls.
It is the norm here, thank god. You can get some good coverage for min. dollars. Also, make sure the hall or site has plenty of liability ins!! If they don't, anything can come back on the vendors.
A pecan shell in November is costing my ins. company approx. 9500.00. less my 250. deduct.
Jeff

[W.DeBord]

My ducks in a row, HA! Not even close. I'm not certified (never was neccesary until now), classes start next month. Still have to find a place to sub-lease from....tons to do, never enough hours in the day. Just plugging away.

[W.DeBord]

Hey, I just re-read your post. Any leads for me on that inexpensive insurance???????

[foodnfoto]

I'd check with trade marks and copyrights, W. but I think the name "The Cake Artist" is protected. You wouldn't want to have everyone get to know you by one name, only to have to change it. You can find this info in the reference section of your library.

[Anna W.]

Panini-

The laws here are very relaxed for home bakers. I am allowed to sell to the end user only- no wholesale. I have liability insurance, etc. No, I do not need to meet the exact same standards as a "shop". What I find interesting is that I am almost never less expensive than the shops. I also don't target specific people's business and I never undercut to get a job. My time is too valuable- I'd rather have the weekend off than sell a cake for less than it's worth. I am a very small business (I only do one wedding cake per weekend) which is what I want right now. At the most, due to space, I could only double my business. After that, I would need to rent space and become a "shop". I have the luxury of conducting myself this way because I am only looking for a small income.

The biggest advantage I see that I have over my competitors is not price but service and professionalism (I went into a "competitors" place one time to get info and they gave me a binder with 10 pictures, prices listed, and said "pick one"). I can be more flexible with people as far as time goes and give them more one on one attention. Other than that, I have only one other person in the area, that I have found, that is doing the same kind of work- IMBC, Fondant, gumpaste, cast sugar, etc. Some do one or two but not all. Most are still doing only Wilton type decorating. In fact, a lot of brides come to me after everyone else has told them they can't do it.

That is probably more than you wanted to know and I try not to get defensive but even though my business is small, I take it as seriously as if I had a big one.

[marmalady]

Your posts about the folks doing illegal catering out of home reminded me of the lady I worked for, who absolutely knew she was flying under the radar! AND - get this - she didn't even charge for her cakes!!!! Included them in the price of her 'per person' charge!!!!! And they weren't even that good!!! Just one of the reasons I'm not working with her anymore; the only reason I stayed as long as I did - a whole six months! - was that it was an incredible learning curve for me, as I did EVERYTHING while she worked on her cakes; she didn't care if I made up new sauces, etc.; I put new twists on main courses, and even developed menus for some of her parties. It got really hairy when we were on site with oh, about 10 aps, and she was still putting finishing touches on the cake, so couldn't give me a hand with things. It was fun while it lasted!

[roon]

Anna, there is no need to be defensive if you know you are legal and following the rules. My best friend's mother has been decorating for over twenty years now and is amazing. The laws where she lives are really strange- if she works for a bakery, she can make her cakes at home (but of course the bakery gets part of the profit from the sale) but if she just wants to foot it herself, she has to build a separate kitchen onto her house that would be used only for the business- no home baking. She only does about two cakes a month, so that's just not financially feasable for her (especially since they are thinking of selling their house!)

She recently did a cake for a horticulturalists wedding- fondant over the cakes and gumpaste orchids and peaches!! It was really amazing, and quite an expensive cake too. Beautiful.

Nothing wrong if you're doing what you're supposed to. But I agree about the whole "Suzy-homemakers" who are just trying to slip in there without bearing the financial burdens that professional cake-decorators do. It's not fair or right.

[Isa]

Originally posted by W.DeBord
Between my friends and family they choose my name,the cake artist . Hopefully it will be an easy name for my clients.

You should check if that name is used by someone in your area. A quick search for the cake artist on the net brought back a surprising number of results.

[roon]

Actually, when you go to get your business license, they will ask you to put down the name of your business. Then, if someone in the area already has a business with that name, in a related field, they'll let you know that you have to pick a different name. For example, two people in the area could have a business named "SuperDuper"- as long as they specialized in different businesses (ie- one is a plumber and the other is a hair salon). But two plumbers wanting the name "SuperDuper" won't fly. The first one, gets the name.

At least, that's how it is in my area. Could be different where you are!

[panini]

Anna,
There is no reason to be defensive. You are doing things the proper way. You don't have to be pumping out cakes to be good. No one will have any less respect for you if only doing one cake a weekend. We do the same thing. We are limited to the number of cakes we can do because of delivery time frame. The fact is, if we expand we will loose quality, control, increase payroll and our net would probably be the same.
There is not one single thing between our business, except that there are probably more times when I don't realize any monies from the business.
Wendy,
when you go down to the court house to register your business they will have some sort of way to look to see if anyone else is operating under that name. You probably know you don't trademark your name, you trademark your logo. It is very inexpensive to register a business name, so if you plan to do or expand into anything else I would register all the names. I have Panini Bakery, Panini Cakes,sandwiches etc.
I would also look into incorperating. Always protect youself and your families belongings. But that will probably come up later.
Calling local ins. guys or gals who handle business will be able to give you quotes. It is usually cheaper to roll the bakery, liability and car to one. I would factor about 1-200. monthly. I have so much to tell you! If you are using credit card to purchase items, don't use personal ones. Get one for your business.
Jeff

[breadster]

when you go to get your business license, it is not their responsibility to see if you have the same name as anyone else- that is your responsibility- you need to do your homework

far better to change your name now - than b4 you get started with it you really only need to worry about it on a statewide level unless you are planning interstate commerce-

i've been involved in a lawsuit regarding a business name- the other company did not "do their homework" and had to change their name

i normally contact my trademark lawyer to do a search for me before i name any of my products- it's quite expensive

i since have found a website that seems to do the same thing- i'll try to find it for you

[breadster]

the site i was looking for is www.marksonline.com- i tried to search it and didnt find anything- but it has other FAQs that provide information that might be pertinent

if you go to google.com and type in "the cake artist" you'll see several uses there- but 1. those were in another state 2. may be different usage

the whole trademark issue gets very complicated- you dont have to trademark your name- however, if someone else has (trademarked the same name) you will have to change it

i know - just another issue to make things more difficult

as i mentioned to you in our discussion- liability insurance and incorporation to protect yourself- and make sure whoever you rent space from has it too

[panini]

Breadster, I'm not trying to be argueementitive at all, but the laws are different all over. I too have had a legal battle with someone using my name and won.
You cannot trade mark something that is used normally like the word bread, pan, oven,roof etc..panini means little bread, therefore it cannot be trade marked. You can trade mark your logo with the word panini in it. You are right when you say it is your responsibility to see if someone else is using the name, but there are easy tools available in your local records department to find this out. Most have all names on computer ot micro film.
Most companies that seem to have problems are those who inc. through their state and forget to search locally.
I will also tell you if you have a name registered and someone opens with the same name you have to respond within a certain period of time or they will be granted the use. 3 yrs. here.

Wendy,
Don't get bogged down with this, just go to your records department and do a search when you register you name. I wouldn't worry about trade marking now, it's probably not in your budget now anyway.

always the flip side