Over-mixing hamburgers.

[novice_01]

I was making hamburgers today - ground turkey, an egg, misc seasonings.

My wife said she saw on some cooking shows that if you mix the hamburger too much it becomes tougher. I told her I never heard of that (not that I would think for a minute of questioning my wife) and am wondering if that is true and, if so, why.

Thanks.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by novice_01

I was making hamburgers today - ground turkey, an egg, misc seasonings.

My wife said she saw on some cooking shows that if you mix the hamburger too much it becomes tougher. I told her I never heard of that (not that I would think for a minute of questioning my wife) and am wondering if that is true and, if so, why.

Thanks.

Too much mixing compacts the ground meat together and makes it dense and heavy. There's not much to it in terms of a reason -- the more you handle, the more you're compressing the little strings of ground meat and squeezing them together. The texture becomes more like a meatball and less like a fluffy hamburger. Certain additions, including egg by the way, work in the same direction. Some people prefer the denser texture -- especially with a meat as lean as turkey, which otherwise has a tendency to fall apart.

Tell your wife that she, as always, is right. Not that she didn't know it, but it makes her happy to hear you do too.

Most good cooks don't mix anything inside a beef hamburger. "Truth in advertising" laws say that a hamburger must be 100% beef -- although seasoning are allowed on the outside. On the other hand, "competition hamburger" (do you believe that?) and a lot of specialty hamburger recipe books suggest all kinds of additions mixed in. I'm with the leave it alone crowd. Turkey burgers are different. Turkey must be fully cooked as a matter of safety. There's not enough fat in the meat, to expect good results handling it the same way as you would beef.

Hope this helps,
BDL

[novice_01]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Too much mixing compacts the ground meat together and makes it dense and heavy. There's not much to it in terms of a reason -- the more you handle, the more you're compressing the little strings of ground meat and squeezing them together. The texture becomes more like a meatball and less like a fluffy hamburger. Certain additions, including egg by the way, work in the same direction. Some people prefer the denser texture -- especially with a meat as lean as turkey, which otherwise has a tendency to fall apart.

Tell your wife that she, as always, is right. Not that she didn't know it, but it makes her happy to hear you do too.

Most good cooks don't mix anything inside a beef hamburger. "Truth in advertising" laws say that a hamburger must be 100% beef -- although seasoning are allowed on the outside. On the other hand, "competition hamburger" (do you believe that?) and a lot of specialty hamburger recipe books suggest all kinds of additions mixed in. I'm with the leave it alone crowd. Turkey burgers are different. Turkey must be fully cooked as a matter of safety. There's not enough fat in the meat, to expect good results handling it the same way as you would beef.

Hope this helps,
BDL

I was actually using ground turkey. So what is the effect of adding egg to the ground turkey? That is, it makes it more dense or less dense?

Thanks.

(I'll be sure to tell my wife she was right.)

[boar_d_laze]

Denser. Like me. Also acts like glue and helps to hold the turkey together.

BDL

[novice_01]

So if I'm using ground turkey, which is less dense and heavy than ground beef, then mixing it more would be okay?

[novice_01]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Denser. Like me. Also acts like glue and helps to hold the turkey together.

BDL

So the glue effect is good but the dense affect is not?

If I'm making burgers out of ground beef, then I would not want to add egg because the ground beef is already dense? Unless I need the egg to hold things together?

[novice_01]

Would adding ketchup to a hamburger mixture - before it gets cooked - make it become more dry (which, of course, I wouldn't want)?

Also, if I form the burgers into shorter and more stout shapes, rather than flatter and wider, would that tend to make then juicier?

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by novice_01

So the glue effect is good but the dense affect is not?

If I'm making burgers out of ground beef, then I would not want to add egg because the ground beef is already dense? Unless I need the egg to hold things together?

Add egg if you like the way it comes out. I feel burgers with egg mixed in to the raw meat aren't burgers. But that's me, not a rule. You don't need egg to hold ground beef together. You need to form a patty in the regular way. Beware of meat that's leaner than 90/10 or fattier than 70/30. 80/20 is my favorite, some people like 80/15. 90/10 won't cook properly unless cooked VERY rare. 70/30 will shrink too much as the fat renders off, and will taste unpleasantly fatty. A burger cooked with 80/20 or 80/15 will render off most of the fat as it's cooked, will taste about as lean as 90/10, and can be cooked to medium-rare or medium without drying out.

BDL

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by novice_01

Would adding ketchup to a hamburger mixture - before it gets cooked - make it become more dry (which, of course, I wouldn't want)?

Also, if I form the burgers into shorter and more stout shapes, rather than flatter and wider, would that tend to make then juicier?

It wouldn't make it particularly juicy or dry. It would make it taste like ketchup flavored meatloaf. Lots of people like these things. There's only one way to find out if that's what you and your family like -- and that's try it. If you're happy with the kind of hamburgers you get in good restaurants that have hamburgers -- it's pure, freshly ground, good quality ground beef; formed into a patty without too much compacting, seasoned, and grilled on a griddle or a char-broiler until cooked to whatever shade of medium the diner desires.

Shorter stouter is usually not a good thing, unless cooking very lean meat very rare. Ground sirloin for instance. It's hard to hit medium in a hamburger that's too thin.

As the hamburgers cook, the protein strands will tighten up and so will the burgers. So even flat hamburgers will fatten up as they cook. When you form the patty, it's a good idea to dish the centers a little so they cook, more or less, flat.

Botttom line: Medium thickness, slightly dished centers.

BDL

[Just Jim]

80/15?
What is the other 5% composed of?

[MaryB]

Think that typo was supposed to be 85/15 I prefer a plain patty with S&P, topped with a nice extra sharp white cheddar and 2 strips of bacon. Onion and tomato when tomato is in season.

[teamfat]

Personally I think 100% turkey burgers just don't taste right, so I negate the heatlh aspects by making my turkey burgers about 75 - 80 percent turkey, the rest ground pork. The extra bit of fat from the pork helps keep the turkey from being too dry and crumbly.

And I too like to keep the patty meat fairly simple, save the onions, peppers, etc. for toppings later. I do sometimes throw a splash of worcesthire sauce in the meat, though, depending on my mood, I guess.

mjb.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by Just Jim

80/15?
What is the other 5% composed of?

Mary's right. Typographical error which should have read, "85/15." IMO, a great ratio for very fresh, best quality chuck or sirloin, trimmed very close with suet (very tasty beef fat) added as the fat. For just buy it at the super, I usually like 80/20.

However, there are some interesting places to buy hamburger 'round here. We do most of our meat shopping from ethnic places -- either carnecerias, Korean meat markets (great beef, inflated prices, haggling required), or a few ethnic supers with good meat departments. One of our favorite meat counters is in a place called Vien Dong Superfood Warehouse, in Rosemead on Rosemead Blvd just below Garvey. Good prices. Fish counter of the gods. Well worth a field trip if you're in SoCal and have never been to a Vietnamese/ pan-Asian/ nod to Hispanics megamart. It's sort of like Costco for people who have lost the will to speak English.

At any rate, their ratio is, "Nobody know."

BDL

[novice_01]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Add egg if you like the way it comes out. I feel burgers with egg mixed in to the raw meat aren't burgers. But that's me, not a rule. You don't need egg to hold ground beef together. You need to form a patty in the regular way. Beware of meat that's leaner than 90/10 or fattier than 70/30. 80/20 is my favorite, some people like 80/15. 90/10 won't cook properly unless cooked VERY rare. 70/30 will shrink too much as the fat renders off, and will taste unpleasantly fatty. A burger cooked with 80/20 or 80/15 will render off most of the fat as it's cooked, will taste about as lean as 90/10, and can be cooked to medium-rare or medium without drying out.

BDL

What happens with the 90/10 meat that it does not cook properly? You mean if you want to cook it longer than rare then it doesn't cook right?

[novice_01]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

It wouldn't make it particularly juicy or dry. It would make it taste like ketchup flavored meatloaf. Lots of people like these things. There's only one way to find out if that's what you and your family like -- and that's try it. If you're happy with the kind of hamburgers you get in good restaurants that have hamburgers -- it's pure, freshly ground, good quality ground beef; formed into a patty without too much compacting, seasoned, and grilled on a griddle or a char-broiler until cooked to whatever shade of medium the diner desires.

Shorter stouter is usually not a good thing, unless cooking very lean meat very rare. Ground sirloin for instance. It's hard to hit medium in a hamburger that's too thin.

As the hamburgers cook, the protein strands will tighten up and so will the burgers. So even flat hamburgers will fatten up as they cook. When you form the patty, it's a good idea to dish the centers a little so they cook, more or less, flat.

Botttom line: Medium thickness, slightly dished centers.

BDL

Thanks for the advice. What's a "dished" center?