[RPMcMurphy]

also, I don't mind the length at all, I love detailed......what I really like...and MOST recipes and books lack...is the "why" being answered....

most recipes say do this this and that.....and i think "why?, why?, why?"

[MaryB]

If the recipe would only tenderize the 5 pound yard bird I have in the freezer.... friend grows them and occasionally one gets a tad big and chewy. Brining and a long slow cook in the BBQ pit helps but they are more of a stewing hen. The recipe sounds good and the length isn't bad, detail is good for beginning cooks who might want to try something new. One trick I do use is to keep the bird breast down in ice while the rest is warming slightly on the counter before going in the oven. Seems to slow the cooking in that part and keeps the breast meat tender.

[Dillbert]

here's another opinion:

brevity is good
length is not bad

more specifically, I like a leading "synopsis" that communicates in brevity the overall steps/method/technique/how to/ whatever.

a separate section with details, comments, experience, "watch out for this!" makes for Excellent Instruction & Education - hey, I'm too old for the way too many available mistakes to do "trial and error" - for me it's learn from others or eat not-so-good-stuff.....

the problem I encounter is "What was the oven temp again?" and who wants to plow through fifteen paragraphs to find it....

otoh, explaining "everything" in "every recipe" gonna get real tedious real fast. in this instance, for example, one may be inclined to brine. the short vs. long brine 'rationale, method, time & material' is very relevant. "Why Brine?" is prolly best put somewhere else, not repeated in every poultry recipe in the book....

and I can put you onto a really good editor if you need one.

[boar_d_laze]

Mary -- Can you get papaya nectar? If so, I've got a brine that ought to make that old hen happy to go for a nice smoke in the Klose. That said, why not a braise or a stew?

Phil, RPM and Dill -- I get what you're saying. I think I have a way to work everything out between your respective points of view and Siduri's too. I'll "blog" about the book's intended organization this weekend -- and if that doesn't resolve the problems, there will, no doubt, be advice.

Dill -- Let it go a little longer, and I'll be looking for feedback, if not more, from an editor. So, don't lose that email address.

In the meantime, you guys, all of you, have no idea how much I appreciate the help you're giving me.

Thanks,
BDL

[RPMcMurphy]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Mary -- Can you get papaya nectar? If so, I've got a brine that ought to make that old hen happy to go for a nice smoke in the Klose.

RPM and Dill -- I get what you're both saying. I think I have a way to work everything out for the book. I'll "blog" about the book's intended organization this weekend.

In the meantime, you guys have no idea how much I appreciate the help you're giving me.

Thanks,
BDL

ya know..if you want to fly out...with a stack full of recipes, to "test" out live in my kicthen....to see if an "amateur" can pull them off......uhh....your more than welcome





....heck i'd even pick up the airfare! (if ya don't mind a lumpy fouton)

[tessa]

can you please answer my ???? why do you all brine your chooks

[teamfat]

Originally Posted by tessa

can you please answer my ???? why do you all brine your chooks

For me it is mostly for moistness and adding a bit of flavor issue. When just doing a few pieces for my wife and I, it is usually the fattier, darker thighs, and I tend to not brine them. Whole chickens and breasts, especially skinless, boneless ones, are not well marbled with fat throughout the white meat. It tends to get a bit dry. I'm not a food scientist, but from what I understand brining provides sort of an osmosis pump. The salt in the brine initially draws water out of the meat, then the meat sucks it back in, carrying a bit of of whatever flavors you've put in the brine.

It isn't strictly necessary, there are other things one can do like making sure you don't overcook it, the most important part.

mjb.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by tessa

can you please answer my ???? why do you all brine your chooks

Teamfat is right. Brining increases the moisture content in the finished product, and that is why it's favored over a different type of marinade for very lean proteins like poultry, fish and some pork.

Salt concentration and timing are important to avoid overbrining which may result in an over-salted and watery product. That's why I specify the amounts for the common types of salts used in US kitchens; and why I not only give an acceptable timing range but an optimal window as well.

Oddly, even people who don't like salt much can tolerate quite a bit more when it enters by brining. Still, IMO, it's important to reduce other forms of salt when seasoning.

Among home cooks, brining seems to be most popular in the States with good cooks' Thanksgiving turkeys, and barbecue. Brining is very big on the circuit with chicken. Some competitors even brine ribs. And of course, it's the only way to do fish. It's also popular in "fine dining" with chicken.

Try it and let us know what you think. God knows you don't lack for instructions,
BDL

[MaryB]

That 5 pounder will probably land in the soup pot when the weather cools down. I will eat chicken from the Klose but it is far from my favorite, turkey is much better.

[DC Sunshine]

Originally Posted by tessa

can you please answer my ???? why do you all brine your chooks

I concur. I just roast mine breast side down (I usually stuff them) and turn over for last 15 minutes to brown the breast. Keeps it very moist.
With Turkeys, I do them in an oven bag, breast side down then take it out for last 20 minutes to brown the skin. Works a charm.

Maybe why not many people brine Down Under is that the chooks are hanging upside down (being on the bottom of the world), hanging on for dear life, and that's why they stay juicy - all the moisture goes into the breasts

On a more serious note, I've heard a hint that rather than/or in addition to washing your fowl, rinse out the cavity with a little vinegar to lessen any bacteria. Whether its fact or fiction, not sure.

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Set the bird to rest on your carving board and cover it tightly with aluminum foil. It must rest at least 10 minutes. Don’t worry about it cooling down. It tastes better warm than hot. It’s also a critical part of making juicy chicken.

Hi BDL


I have a problem with my birds regarding the resting process. When I roast a chicken I use a very similar technique that you describe in your recipe.

My problem is with that nice crisp skin on a roast chicken. It comes out of the oven nice and crisp. After I take it out of the oven I'll leave it to rest. I've tried to tightly tent the bird...I've tried a loose tent...I've tried placing it in the microwave (which just acts like an insulated box).


No matter which method I try I end up with soft skin. It's still good...but it definitely isn't crisp (like when it came out of the oven). Letting the bird rest on the counter uncovered seems to work ok. I just can't help but think that I'm missing something simple.


thanks,
dan

[shel]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

My problem is with that nice crisp skin on a roast chicken. It comes out of the oven nice and crisp. After I take it out of the oven I'll leave it to rest. I've tried to tightly tent the bird...I've tried a loose tent...I've tried placing it in the microwave (which just acts like an insulated box).

No matter which method I try I end up with soft skin. It's still good...but it definitely isn't crisp (like when it came out of the oven). Letting the bird rest on the counter uncovered seems to work ok. I just can't help but think that I'm missing something simple.

I think you've answered your own question. Tenting and placing the bird in the microwave retains moisture in such a way that the skin looses crispness. Just let the bird rest uncovered ...

[boar_d_laze]

Shel is right.

Let me tell you what's going on so you can control it better. There's a certain amount of water in and directly under the skin. The drier the skin, the crisper. The hotter you roast the chicken, the more you'll dry out the skin. The longer you roast the chicken, the same. However, chicken meat dries out very easily so it's important to balance time and temperature, and to use other techniques to keep the meat as moist as possible while drying the skin.

When you wrap the chicken or hold it in a tight environment, water condenses on and in the skin, causing it to soften. Even tenting, if the weather is humid, can be a problem. There are even worse conditions than the micro or a tent. For instance, you might want to hold the chicken for a long time, wrapped and in an insulated container.

Sometimes you have to live with it, but sometimes there's a remedy. Here's the "pro" fixit: Use a torch to crisp the skin just before serving. You don't need to blacken it. A couple of seconds of direct flame is all it takes. Don't buy a culinary torch from a kitchen supply. Buy a regular plumber's torch from a hardware store. Costs less, cheaper refills, works better, no drawbacks.

BDL

[shel]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Buy a regular plumber's torch from a hardware store. Costs less, cheaper refills, works better, no drawbacks.

Plus you can fix your leaky sink with it - great multitasking tool!

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by shel

Plus you can fix your leaky sink with it - great multitasking tool!

Shel,

I'm surprised to hear you say so. Women multitask. We just look confused, then buy another tool. Tools, yum.

BDL