First signs of a bad dining experience...

[lentil]

Thanks, BigGrizzly, for your learned opinion of my psyche.

Let's call it what it is, shall we? The overuse of terms of endearment by total strangers is nothing more than a cheap stunt to make bigger tips. The irony of it all is that if these so called "friendly and hospitable" servers used some common sense and learned to read their customers a little better, their tips would improve markedly. You may get warm fuzzies at being called "my dear" by your server, but I find it insulting. An astute server would know that after the first foray into his or her saccharine vocabulary.

I still find it nauseating and what's more, insipid behavior like that is degrading to the person using it. What's wrong with being a professional at whatever your career chioce happens to be?

[diane]

I am afraid, Big Grizzly, my stance remains firmly with Lentil. Over familiarity is something we might expect from a drunk, perhaps. A gauche, or untutored person. It is further my opinion that these terms are used to diminish the stature of the person being served. A kind of equaliser if you like. From a silently resentful server. As for putting down a young man in his fifteenth year, well that is just insanity. He would be likely to eat the largest amount of all. And he will never forget.

My view on children in restaurants is that it is my job to keep them sitting correctly and quietly, from the earliest practical age. It is the servers job to treat them with the respect I expect for myself and my husband. So, I don't care if they are 3 years. Let alone coming on 15 years. Both my boys could order for the family with great aplomb by the time they were 8 years.

We only had one incident as far as I recall, I was with both my sons to meet my husband in Rotorua. and stopped for a meal in Hamilton. We were shoved in a corner as is normal with a woman and children, Older son was 12, Other son 10. For once I was grateful. Older has a very sophisticated and deadly humour. Even at that age. He made some crack, and Younger was convulsed with laughter, he had his hands over his mouth, but a bit leaked through, this set Older off, it esculated. Still very quiet. They were crying, then younger, in efforts to avoid rupturing his ventral abdoninal wall, leaned forward and banged his head on the table. He was only a little fellow (at the time). I was catching up fast, the next table caught it, not that they knew what they were laughing at, it didn't take long for this epidemic to spread through the dining room. There were about 50 people howling their heads off, we took shelter in the general cocophany to remove our hands from our mouths and transferred them to holding our aching ribs. Above all the laughter I could hear Younger, his laugh like a mad bugie. Setting people off again. All settled down again about 20mins later, just a few sporadic outbursts. I had chicken liver pate, with extraordinarily hot vogel toast points. It was lovely, I don't remember what the boys had. After we left, Older said to me that it was an interesting if unplanned window on crowd control.

Now I shall just hop off, Grizzy, and put another log on the fire. Tea?

[lentil]

Originally Posted by diane

I am afraid, Big Grizzly, my stance remains firmly with Lentil. Over familiarity is something we might expect from a drunk, perhaps. A gauche, or untutored person. It is further my opinion that these terms are used to diminish the stature of the person being served. A kind of equaliser if you like. From a silently resentful server. As for putting down a young man in his fifteenth year, well that is just insanity. He would be likely to eat the largest amount of all. And he will never forget.

Diane,

Your children sound delightful! I sympathize with your younger one as I am cursed with the same affliction that leaves me unable to control my laughter. I used to work with another bartender who would, like your older son, say or do something that would leave me hysterical, but patrons completely unaware. There were times I'd have to scootch town behind the bar until I could regain my composure so as not to offend some customer. I loved working with him, but there were days I wanted to squirt him with the seltzer. I was, and am still amazed that he could reduce me to helpless giggles and not even crack a smile! On the other hand, when he was in an ugly mood, watch out!

Your take on overly familiar servers is interesting. I hadn't thought of their comments as equalizing before. It makes sense. If you can call me darling or dear or hon, I am just like you. As I said before, I'd prefer a professional relationship with my server, and when the shoe is on the other foot (and it is since I'm a caterer), I want a professional relationship with my customers/clients.

Recently, I was short some staff and asked my sister to help with a wedding. She owns a business, and has never really worked as a waitress. She was really hurt that the guests didn't pay much attention to her. Her comment was "they don't even know me and they treated me like I wasn't even there".

I thought it was quite funny looking at it from my perspective. I told her what I thought all banquet servers knew; that we TRY to be unobtrusive and maybe even invisible. We don't ask if someone if finished, but wait for the signs that they are- knife and fork placed on the plate, etc. I like the service to be attentive without being in their faces. It's not necessary to ask each person at the table if they want a coffee refill- simply fill an empty cup or make eye contact with the person. It's easy to know whether or not to fill it. My poor sister smiled and asked if she could take their plates, if they wanted coffee, whatever, and expected a warm reply and all she got in most instances was a nod. The guests weren't there to make friends with her, but to celebrate the wedding of the hosts.

Another woman who does some work for me was helping at a house party. We were in the kitchen prepping the apps when the hostess and a guest came in for something. They were admiring her new appliances when my helper joined in the conversation. She was having a grand old time talking about all she knew about appliances and the like when she caught me looking at her from across the room and shut up insantly. On the way home from the job, she apologized and said she didn't realize she wasn't supposed to talk to the guests. I told her it's not that we're not supposed to talk, but that we're the hired help-we don't have to grovel, but we're not part of the party. The next time she worked for me, she wasn't quite so chatty.

She's definately more used to being a guest than the server, though. Yesterday, we were leaving after a drop off and set up when the hostess arrived. She asked which of us was Susan/me as we had only spoken on the phone. I stepped forward, shook her hand, and introduced myself, and my helper said- with a little edge- "I'm Debbie." as if she should have been introduced also. I probably would have done so, but she was making it known under no uncertain terms, that she was not happy about not being introduced immediately. I don't call her all that often. Funny thing,though, I've been at her home when she's had hired help there, and she acts like the queen.

Anyway, this is my day off, so I'm going to get out of her and go home to get ready to go out to dinner with friends. Husband just called and suggested we not go to the place where the server called me darling. Smart man.

[diane]

LOL Lentil, people are hilarious, they really are, and don't even have to try. I remember with great pleasure taking Oldest to Invercargill for a convention, he was 14 years then, and I got lonely, wanted the company. I had invited one of my clients to dinner, which was very nice. After dinner Campbell asked to be excused, I gave permission, he bowed to the wife of my client, kissed the tips of her fingers, smiled at her as only he can, bowed to my client, said a few right words, took one step back, a brief nod and smile to the wife, and withdrew. Now this is the point of this epistle. She cried. After she had recovered her composure, she said she thought she would have to go to Buckingham Palace for that sort of thing to happen. This Lady had spent 40 hard years in business with her husband, and she went home wearing glass slippers. All because someone has good manners.

[DMT]

To put a little bit different spin on the "Dear" thing...

Jim-Bob was the occasional sportsman, and finally brought home game for the family to eat...

After his first successful hunt, he had prepared some venison for dinner.

He placed the meat in front of his young children, who asked, "What's this Daddy?"

Not being sure if he should tell them that he's killed Bambi, dressed it and had it butchered to feed the family, he replied, "It's something that your mother calls me sometimes."

At which point, little Betsy-Sue yells, "Spit it out John-Boy!! It's butt hole!!!"

[lentil]

That's great!

[CapeCodder]

"Hello, my name is --- and i will be your server" is a pretty good sign of an impending disaster.

[lentil]

Originally Posted by CapeCodder

"Hello, my name is --- and i will be your server" is a pretty good sign of an impending disaster.

We were just talking about this last night.

As if I really need to be told that the person standing in front of me with a tray, pad, and pen is my server. I really couldn't care less what their name is most of the time, but if they want to tell me, they could just say, "my name is Deb if you need anything." I'd really prefer that they just be attentive so I don't have to flag down a busperson and ask them to go find Deb.

Will bank tellers soon be saying, "Hi, my name is.... and I'll be handling your transaction today." or "My name is...and I'll be bagging your groceries." ? Ugh.

When I do a catering job, I introduce myself to the host as we've already met by phone, I'm taking their money, and I own the business. I have a woman who works for me who'll step right up and introduce herself, too, as if the host really cares who she is. I've told her that (in a nice way, of course...), but the bottom line is that she really looks down on servers herself, and tries to elevate herself (in her perception) by becoming one of the "management".

I don't use her very often.....

[siduri]

Restaurants here in italy are very different. The things that most depress me (which are very common here) are
1. food exactly as you order it - you ask for roast veal, you get that, and only that, a slice of roast veal. If you want a vegetable, you have to order a vegetable. No side dishes, no attempt to make the food look good, just a piece of meat splopped on a dish. (most places here are like that unfortunately)
2. a really bad sign is when you ask for pepper and they bring you a pepper shaker, rather than a grinder. Once i ordered "bucatini cacio e pepe" (cheese and pepper bucatini) - i couldn;t taste the pepper, asked for more, adn they brought me a pepper shaker. You can't make a dish with pepper as it's main ingredient with pre-ground pepper. Tells you a lot about the level of care they put into their cooking.
3. no soundproofing, noisy place
4. no attempt at decor except a few souvenir plates on the wall and a couple of signed photos of famous people who purportedly have eaten there
5, salad with water in the dish
6. waiters who seem to think that if they come soon they're rushing you. as well as those who seem annoyed if you haven't selected your dish after five minutes
7. no written menu - the waiter recites the dishes, one at a time, hoping you'll say yes before he finishes the list to save time. "penne all'arrabbiata?" no "bucatini all'amatriciana?" what else? "gnocchi al pomodoro?" etc.

[Free Rider]

Originally Posted by siduri

7. no written menu - the waiter recites the dishes, one at a time, hoping you'll say yes before he finishes the list to save time. "penne all'arrabbiata?" no "bucatini all'amatriciana?" what else? "gnocchi al pomodoro?" etc.

Now there's an economic reason for that. "menu cost" = it takes time and money to re-price items when they are printed on a menu. If you simply recite the menu, you can change the prices second-by-second if you want to.

[siduri]

Originally Posted by Free Rider

Now there's an economic reason for that. "menu cost" = it takes time and money to re-price items when they are printed on a menu. If you simply recite the menu, you can change the prices second-by-second if you want to.

Free rider, they do this a lot and they don't recite the prices at all!

[Free Rider]

Even better, then they can charge you whatever they want at the end.

[shel]

There's a café that I sometimes visit in part because the witress calls me (and everyone) "Hon." I think it's great to find such a lack of pretense every now and then. It's just a different atmosphere than the more upscale and priggish places, which also have their place.

[lentil]

Originally Posted by shel

There's a café that I sometimes visit in part because the witress calls me (and everyone) "Hon." I think it's great to find such a lack of pretense every now and then. It's just a different atmosphere than the more upscale and priggish places, which also have their place.

I understand what you're saying. "Hon" has it's place, but it's when the sweet endearments ARE the pretense that it bugs me.

[Jayme]

I went back and read this thread...LMAO at some. I agree that being called sweetie, hon, or dear is very irritating. But on the other end, I have people that get upset with me for calling them sir or mam- (these are usually people that I know and I feel I am showing respect to)- it has nothing to do with their age (younger or older than myself). Some people tell me not to call them sir because they actually work for a living (I presume this is implied to military titles of officers who don't work hard) or I am told that their parent is sir or mam, not them. (this also has nothing to do with the age of the customer). So my question is- what is appropriate???? obviously most don't like to be too friendly or feel belittled, some don't like too formal...... what do you all prefer? (from either side of the transaction)