"adult fast food"

[boar_d_laze]

Wine in a tumbler, rather than a stemmed glass is very typical around the Med -- especially with house wine. The wine glass doesn't bother me, but thanks for trying Macaroni Grill so I don't have to.

BDL

[yorvo]

I've been to a few old school Italian places that served the house wine in a regular glass.

[RPMcMurphy]

Then color me ignorant, but I'm just not used to it...made the already bad house wine, taste worse (to me)

but...tradition is tradition, I stand corrected.

[shel]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Wine in a tumbler, rather than a stemmed glass is very typical around the Med -- especially with house wine. The wine glass doesn't bother me, but thanks for trying Macaroni Grill so I don't have to. BDL

Back in the late '60s I hung around North Beach in SF a lot - that's where I lived - when North Beach was mostly Italian. I frequented a few of the local eateries and a couple of bars where the old men spent their afternoons, and it was quite common to drink red wine in tumblers. I grew to like the idea - an unpretentious red - sometimes home made - served in a simple glass, and enjoyed with good, stimulating conversation.

Last night I opend a '92 Charles Krug Cabernet from my cellar which we all enjoyed in a stemless glass which was designed to fit comfortably in the hand. The wine was good enough to warrant a better, more "fitting" glass, but it was also good enough to be enjoyed in a simple tumbler, not unlike the glasses used by the old men at the winery, when sitting out back away from the tourists.

shel

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by shel

Back in the late '60s I hung around North Beach in SF a lot - that's where I lived - when North Beach was mostly Italian. I frequented a few of the local eateries and a couple of bars where the old men spent their afternoons, and it was quite common to drink red wine in tumblers.

That was you at La Pantera? Wonder what else we have in common. Don't tell me I saw you at at Winterland too. Char siu bao at Colonial Donuts? Fish and chips at Mr. Chips (on Lombard)? Passed out at the counter of New Joes? Original Joes? Remember the war cry of the bat-winged hamburger snatcher?

Doggie Diner!
BDL

[911 inside job]

I grew up in the north end in boston which was very italian and was sort of inculcated with authentic italian food cook by grandmothers who could speak
very little english but **** could try cook. So my palatte is accustom to italian food cooked freshed and with lots of love. From my perception eatting
at fast food italian rest like OG is not my cup of tea. Living in the south now
its almost impossible to find a good italian rest. so i end up making my own.
BUt as far as good italian food it seems that the best places are located from
new england to philadelphia and chicago,san fran. Out side of those locations
its allmost impossible to get good italian food.Not to say that none exist.
I think the who question of fast food vs independent can be answered with this question, what kind of food your mom/dad made and what restaurant did
they bring you to. If you lived outside those areas then more than likely
rest. like OG probably taste good to you. Same thing can be said about
ribs. Try getting good ribs in the north east, close to impossible.
Case in point many years ago i worked in a caffertia situation in south calf. They hired this new girl who worked in hospital kitchen. One day she made this tomatoes sauce that tasted ,swear to god, like Chef Boyardee, the stuff in the can. I thought i was going to puke. But to my surprise the customers raved about it. Then I asked some of the customer what
they enjoyed in italian food as a child and one for one it was chef boyardee. It seems to me that are taste buds are programed by our parents/friends when we are young

[shel]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

That was you at La Pantera? Wonder what else we have in common. Don't tell me I saw you at at Winterland too. Char siu bao at Colonial Donuts? Fish and chips at Mr. Chips (on Lombard)? Passed out at the counter of New Joes? Original Joes? Remember the war cry of the bat-winged hamburger snatcher?

Doggie Diner!
BDL

I'm sure we frequented the same places at various times. Winterland definitely; Colonial Donuts definitely (although I used to hit the one on Euclid in Berkeley most often), Clown Alley <LOL>, the Tick-Tock on Columbus. I did hit a fish and chips place in the Marina area every now and then, but much preferred the place on Haight Street just up from Stannage a ways, and probably hit every Joe's in the Bay Area at least six times. Lived close to Bimbo's, and often got in to see a lot of great shows from the wings, hung around The Committee a lot, as well as other places on Bway. Doggie Diner? You betcha! And Zim's, Hippo Burger, US Restaurant. Do you recall Sam Wo's and Edsel Ford Fong?

And then there was Berkeley .... I understand that you were there and that we can probably share a story or two about Alice and CP.

Dan O'Neill = bat-winged hamburger snatcher, yes?

scb

[collegekid19]

Lemme say get to what everyone is beating around the bush at:
These places are disgusting!!!

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by shel

I'm sure we frequented the same places at various times. Winterland definitely; Colonial Donuts definitely (although I used to hit the one on Euclid in Berkeley most often), Clown Alley <LOL>, the Tick-Tock on Columbus. I did hit a fish and chips place in the Marina area every now and then, but much preferred the place on Haight Street just up from Stannage a ways,

Until the fish 'n chips we were batting 1000. We may still be, but I just don't remember. My memory of the early seventies in general sometimes gets kind of hazy. Especially in the vicinity of Haight Street. I used to date an aspiring actress who lived right around there. Audrey. Yum.

and probably hit every Joe's in the Bay Area at least six times. Lived close to Bimbo's, and often got in to see a lot of great shows from the wings, hung around The Committee a lot, as well as other places on Bway. Doggie Diner? You betcha! And Zim's, Hippo Burger, US Restaurant. Do you recall Sam Wo's and Edsel Ford Fong?

Yes to all. FWIW, I think Sam Wo's (was it wo or woo?) roughly translates as "Barbecue Deli" in Chinese. But I know the place you're talking about all too well. Remember the maitre d' there? Paul, I think. He used to walk behind attractive women as they went up the stairs so he could watch their tushies. Had a real foul mouth too. Funny guy, though. Sam Woo's and the SF Colonial donuts had a real competition going on for who had the best char siu bao.

Also, we clearly need to discuss the relative merits of Sam's and Taditch's. Who has the best sand dabs?

And then there was Berkeley .... I understand that you were there and that we can probably share a story or two about Alice and CP.

Yes, my three apartments were all in the East Bay for the 6 years I lived and went to school (Cal) in the Bay Area. My employment was split between SF and the East Bay. I've got Alice-CP-Jeremiah stories, but the Larry Blake's stories are much funnier and a lot more alcoholic. I was a bouncer/ fill-in bartender/ fill-in cook at the Anchor Inn for awhile, if you remember that; and Mandrakes, and Jerry's Stop Sign (the bar that came after Mandrakes). Also good stories. Ever get a clam sandwich at Tyrone Fats?

Dan O'Neill = bat-winged hamburger snatcher, yes?

Most definitely. "Doggie Diner!" was the BWHS's war cry.

Doggie Diner!
BDL

[bundens]

I'm not an alcohol expert ...or wine expert..at all..i rarely drink but i have been to the macaroni grille and I thought it was terrible. I would have rather gone to the cheesecake factory or east side marios (when that was around)...I do think that it depends on your heritage and part of the country you grew up that affects how you feel about certain foods...or what taste good. I grew up in the philadelphia area and I will tell you with certainty that I've eaten "cheesesteaks" at many places all over...away from philly and for some reason nobody can do it right. A big thing about cheesesteaks and hoagies is the roll...if the bread isn't good, neither is the sandwich. I don't know if restaurants do things differently to appear different or b/c for some reason they are cheesesteak and hoagie clueless...either way, neither is major culinary cuisine but, can't be replicated anywhere other than the northeast, specifically pa or nyc. I will tell you that mexican food is incomparable as well as ribs or bbq. Hard to find...if not impossible to find a decent place. Unless it's a chain, I do love chevy's fresh mex...I think they are one of the better chains
and i occassionally consider driving back out to the west coast just to eat at this place I absolutely loved..fresh choice (another chain)...oh and high tech burrito..at the time they only had like 3 stores..they may have more now.
but this maybe b/c I'm used to italian foods and cheesesteaks...
You guys on the west coast probably have a different opinion of the west coast fair.

[shel]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Until the fish 'n chips we were batting 1000. We may still be, but I just don't remember. My memory of the early seventies in general sometimes gets kind of hazy. Especially in the vicinity of Haight Street. I used to date an aspiring actress who lived right around there. Audrey. Yum.

I moved to Berkeley around 1970, maybe 1971

Yes to all. FWIW, I think Sam Wo's (was it wo or woo?) roughly translates as "Barbecue Deli" in Chinese. But I know the place you're talking about all too well. Remember the maitre d' there? Paul, I think. He used to walk behind attractive women as they went up the stairs so he could watch their tushies. Had a real foul mouth too. Funny guy, though. Sam Woo's and the SF Colonial donuts had a real competition going on for who had the best char siu bao.

It was Sam Wo. http://www.fudcourt.com/samwo.html I believe Paul (Actually Henry if I remember correctly) was Edsel's brother, and they may have owned the place. There's now an Edsel Ford Fong eatery at the baseball stadium in SF ...

Also, we clearly need to discuss the relative merits of Sam's and Taditch's. Who has the best sand dabs?

I'd put my money down for Tadich grill for fish.

Yes, my three apartments were all in the East Bay for the 6 years I lived and went to school (Cal) in the Bay Area. My employment was split between SF and the East Bay. I've got Alice-CP-Jeremiah stories, but the Larry Blake's stories are much funnier and a lot more alcoholic. I was a bouncer/ fill-in bartender/ fill-in cook at the Anchor Inn for awhile, if you remember that; and Mandrakes, and Jerry's Stop Sign (the bar that came after Mandrakes). Also good stories. Ever get a clam sandwich at Tyrone Fats?

Boy, I'd forgotten about Larry Blake's. Visited the place a few times ;-)) Didn't frequent bars very much, if at all, so the places you mentioned don't ring a bell.

scb

[Mapiva]

I live in NYC and I love Italian food.

To be perfectly frank I've never really liked the italian restaurants in Little Italy. I am not a big fan of the "bathe everything in marinara" style of cooking and prefer to eat at independent Italian restaurants scattered around the city. Arte Cafe on 73rd and Columbus is my particular favorite that fits in a person's average budget (about $30 per person without wine) and I've never been dissappointed with their northern Italian cuisine.

When I have gone to visit friends in Italy they are amused to no end with the American interpretation of Italian food. Much in the same way that I become amused at what people consider Greek food. Most think that if you just stick some feta and oregano on it then you've got InstaGreekFlavor!

[ED BUCHANAN]

There is a need for OG and places like this, the same as there is need for upscale places. I agree with BDL for safety sake everything is slightly overcooked. McDonalds became the loargest in the world because 1. they did not let people think on there own. If they did they would not be CONSISTANT. This is the key good or bad they are 99% CONSISTANT, YOU KNOW WHEN YOU WALK IN WHAT YOU WILL GET. You dont set your hopes to high and you are not disapointed.
As far as the service thats another story. I have walked out of places because they do not speak nor understand english. Some of the service staff should be eligable for Academy Awards for imitating waiters and waitresses, yet its our own fault, if service is bad people still tip. If they are rewarded for bad service, why should they improve?

[shel]

Originally Posted by ED BUCHANAN

[...] If they are rewarded for bad service, why should they improve?

To get bigger tips?

scb

[MaryB]

Even the lowly McBarf is insonsistant. the fries at the one 20 miles east of me are some of the best I have ever had. The ones 30 miles SW are horrible and almost always soggy!