[Dillbert]

if you have been following along in the professional sections, and others, there's quite a documented trail of vebal, emotional, managerial abuse heaped on the kitchen help.

although not "completely accepted at face value" there is an undercurrent of "it's a high stress, fast paced" environment where it takes a foul mouthed insulting degrading demeaning kitchen dictator to make anything happen "right"

personally, if I were sitting in a Gordon Ramsey established and heard / saw any of his antics, I'd tell him to "Pack his knives and leave" in a heartbeat.
I've been in quite a few "high end" places - Mesa Grill for example - open kitchen - there is NONE of Gordon's tactics visible. so his behavior is not a required element.

since us non-professionals post outside the professional sections, seemed like an idea to open up the topic for patrons of the menu.....

it occurred to me that us non-professional chef/kitchen types might also have a few "high stress" jobs to deal with.
any body know a heart surgeon that reduces his OR staff to tears ala Gordon?
would you like to be on Gordon's table?

or how about the trauma teams?
at least Gordon has the advantage of a menu - trauma teams do not have the option to say:
"Pick one injury from Column A and one injury from Column B - we're not prepared to service any other injuries."
that's no "stress"?

I have worked for large companies, small companies, independent, consulting....
I have never encountered an experience (other than boot camp) where such abuse of employees is tolerated.

Would you patronize an establishment where the kitchen staff are having their heads beat in for your dining pleasure?

[kuan]

Construction perhaps? But still I don't think it happens even there. One of the benefits of an open kitchen is the kitchen staff know there's no room for obscenities. I'd inform the manager and walk out if I heard any of that @%^* going on.

[LollaRossa]

1) It's all for TV in his American shows. Ramsay is well documented as being a great mentor and coach as well some what of a teddy bear when it comes to his staff. He has many people that have worked for him for years, some have been with him from the start.

2) Construction. I did a little stint is construction for extra pay and was degraded more on the work site than I EVER was in a kitchen.

3) Military? Say that is no comparison? Military brigade, kitchen brigade. I also like to think one has to attack the prep and attack the dupes. If ya don't you're losing the battle.

[Dillbert]

.....some what of a teddy bear

wow. I would never have thought of promoting my reputation by publicly portraying myself as a world class <uhmm, non-complimentary label>

based on his tv personae in at least two separate shows, I would not go near any of his establishments; reported with good food or otherwise.

if the tv Gordon is so unhappy with his staff, he should send them packing. it _is_ a competitive field and I'm certain someone would be happy to demonstrate their more better competence.

military boot camp is a right of passage with limited duration.
there's ample evidence here that the abusive screaming drill sgt of the kitchen is an everyday all day event. hence I excluded boot camp.
tv is tv; folks here are not on tv, they're on "real life" and the situation described is not an "unknown"

in my military career, in a progress of tens to hundreds of subordinates, had I ever publicly treated them as Mr. Gordon does I'd be making little rocks out of big rocks in Leavenworth. and that is not to say I never dragged a subordinate into a private discussion (see: walk in) and read them the riot act.

that was then. the military has changes and perhaps those lumpy chested sailors are way more tougher than the flat chested sailors I dealt with - but I don't think so.

note to staff - please correct the thread spelling. if I'm gonna lump Gordon I reckon I owe him the courtesy of spelling his name correctly.....

[Ishbel]

I've eaten at most of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants in London, including the restaurants run by many of his proteges, including marcus Wareing and Angela hartnett.

Those chefs wouldn't have stayed with him as long as they did (both are now opening their own London dining venues) if he was such an ar sehole.

I have NEVER had a poor meal in a Ramsay restaurant, which is more than I can say for other Michelin star places in the UK.

[longfellow]

Dude its a TV show. who would watch a tv show of cooks just cooking food
in a calm subdued enviroment. Ramsey knows how to play in front of the cameras. If he acted like that to his real staff ,especially the good ones, they would pack their knife in a london min.

[izbnso]

As I said before in a post where we all gathered round to arm chair analyze the in your face chef:
Where else do you see this sort of behavior? College and professional sports coaches. I’m married to a former coach and you can bet your bottom dollar that the players (both professional and college) and subordinate coaches take it, or they leave it. Remember, GR played professional soccer at one time so I’m thinking he picked it up there.

Great story I heard at some sort of Sport Banquet where coaches from all over were given honors (don’t ask me what it was, I’ve been to too many):
The coach being honored harkened back to a story about when he was a young man playing football. (I think it was at UGA but I honestly don’t recall) It was just after the end of WWII and it was the first year that young college boys like him were asked to play with Veterans returning home from the war.
He cracked funny that he thought the other team had been scary before, now he had to go up against guys who had left fingers on Iwo Jima.
The coach, apparently legendary for his level of getting in the faces of his players, began his shtick with one of these veterans. The young man, who had seen some real hairy stuff in the war, promptly decked the coach and walked off the practice field. The coach jumped up, ran after the player begging him to come back. Announcing, loudly, to everyone that that was just the kind of player he was looking for.

Would I walk out of an establishment if I overheard that kind of situation, probably not.

I’ve been in a place where the owner/manager went ballistic in the kitchen. His staff had spent the previous day frying every piece of chicken he had, for no apparent reason. Then instead of putting it away properly, they left it in warmers which they turned off before they left for the night. The straw that broke his back was their inability to turn out baked potatoes that weren’t raw inside. Potatoes went flying along with a few choice words. Given the amount of money they had managed to take out of his children’s mouths I can’t say that I blame him.

[m brown]

Ahh, back in the day, when the odd pot or pan would fly by and the jokes were tres salty. The chef put you in your place with a verbal barrage that would make a salor blush. Those days are gone.
Showing my age, and love of the craft.
Ramsey's restaurants are stellar and his kitchens well above board.
The show is a hoot and just silly.

[kuan]

Originally Posted by 911 inside job

Dude its a TV show. who would watch a tv show of cooks just cooking food

How about all of us?

[Mapiva]

Originally Posted by Dillbert

personally, if I were sitting in a Gordon Ramsey established and heard / saw any of his antics, I'd tell him to "Pack his knives and leave" in a heartbeat.
I've been in quite a few "high end" places - Mesa Grill for example - open kitchen - there is NONE of Gordon's tactics visible. so his behavior is not a required element.


Would you patronize an establishment where the kitchen staff are having their heads beat in for your dining pleasure?

Gordon sets himself up to be hated by American viewers. Actually, people love to hate him and there's a difference in that.

The thing that you obviously do not know is that Gordon elevates the dining experience to a degree you would not believe if you didn't see it for yourself. It is a complete dining experience without one aspect lacking - service, atmosphere, and of course the food. It would be better if you experienced it first hand BEFORE putting him down.

By the way, I would rather eat my cigarette ashes rolled up in a tortilla than revisit the Mesa Grill again.

[Dillbert]

/q
The thing that you obviously do not know is that Gordon elevates the dining experience to a degree you would not believe if you didn't see it for yourself. It is a complete dining experience without one aspect lacking - service, atmosphere, and of course the food. It would be better if you experienced it first hand BEFORE putting him down.
/uq

a primary concern - to me - when contemplating the "where we goin?" is "and where is the good eatin' places?"

I do not claim to be the world's ultimate food dining service and taste expert. it's just me and whether I found the experience exceeds, meets, or fails my expectations.

I've had happy and unhappy experiences at 200 USD/head as well at 35 USD/head. it is what it is and RealTV was not present.

example: Mesa Grill - the pepper sauces are superb. the rest of the food is good, almost. when I mentioned - on prompting - of "how was that?" to our server that the oyster Rockefeller were over cooked & tough, I was invited to send Bobby an email. that sorta' completely totally washes out any theory of "customer."

if you don't want to know, stop asking.

.......By the way, I would rather eat my cigarette ashes rolled up in a tortilla than revisit the Mesa Grill again.
I can go with that; got a light?

I've dined extensively over multiple continents and styles. and frankly my dear, I rather have something dished up by a happy crowd than some of Gordon's (portrayed) lot.

true, untrue, don't care. tv, not tv, even less important.
I do not subscribe to the theory that one can inspire the best efforts of a staff via the most brutal verbal/emotional/physical beatings on record.

if it's a "tv rating thing" okay, no problem.
if anyone thinks his tv person / method / approach will inspire me to visit any of his establishments anywhere in the world.... well, not gonna' happen - ergo for me there will be no "try it before you put it down."

Gordon needs to read up on "leadership" - he ain't portraying any of that. He has only demonstrated on tv that any Limey can be a perfect a**. humpf, and they said Ami's had the lock on that . . .

[Mapiva]

Like I said, Gordon sets himself up to be hated so it's your right to do so. His American shows are disappointing to me because he obviously hams it up for ratings. His UK shows on the other hand (Gordon's F word, and Kitchen Nightmares) are really insightful as to what kind of chef he is. I especially like the recipes he shows on youtube as well. Completely different guy. In these shows you might see someone who curses a lot, never backs down from his instinct, pushes people, and is upfront with what he thinks no matter if it is "nice" or not.

A lot like you I would say.

He seems insensitive but in the end I think he's someone who cares enough about the business to expect the best, always gets the most out of the staff, and is not afraid to dish out the compliments when a level of professionalism is reached. He may act like a lion but in truth he's just a teddy bear that revels in the success of others. It's just tough love.

At the end of my day I've never tasted a Gordon dish I did not like.

[Ishbel]

Well said, Mapiva. I totally agree!

Now that he and Marcus Wareing have fallen out, I'm interested to see whether Wareing stays true to Ramsay's style and standards. He is a GREAT chef - and I'm going to give his place another try when next in London and able to book a table.

[mpeirson]

I dislike how that kind of behavior is "acceptable" now, ratings or not. I know somewhere that behavior has always been there, but maybe that's what's wrong with so much nowadays. I am sure that is too broad of a statement to make, but it "feels" like everything is so negative and nasty now. I do not watch any reality shows whatsoever due to the humiliation and nastiness that consumes them. If you want to feel bad, just watch the news. Just thinking too much....

[Willie24]

I must say that I haven't watched much of Ramsay's show - once, about twenty minutes worth. I realize that this not his true personality - if it was he'd have a hard time keeping help. What I don't understand why watching people being humiliated is entertaining. If it's all for show what's the point? Like most reality shows once the camera light goes on reality goes out the window and it becomes just another tv show.


As talented and successful as Mr. Ramsay it is lost on me - I find him and his show a waste of time. If he is as good a mentor and as caring on his shows across the pond as several of you have said then let's see that -not the borish act he's brought to the states.