[Bazza]

Diners in the UK have listed the following as their biggest gripes when eating out. The two that came out top of the list are;

1. Over attentive servers. Is everything ok? Is everything ok? Is everything ok?

2. Double tipping, where the service is included but not made clear on the bill and they allow you to tip again without saying anything.

Others include being charged for tap water, paying over the top for bottled water, pretentious menus written in Franglish, a mixture of French and English, and unusual cullinary terms that only chefs understand. Open salt and pepper bowls, tiny portions and over zealous servers rushing you so they can turn tables.

Interesting pointers for owners wishing to up their game. I know there have been many threads highlighting pet peeves on cheftalk, but on the points I have raised here, how do they compare to the US?

[KCZ]

I think most of those things would irritate diners in the US, although charges for tap water and open S&P bowls are rarely seen here. I think our No. 1 gripe, though, is simply bad food. I can put up with most other things if the food is good and the service is at least adequate.

[ChrisLehrer]

Originally Posted by Bazza

1. Over attentive servers. Is everything ok? Is everything ok? Is everything ok?

The New Yorker cartoonists have had a field day about this for decades. I remember one from the late 80s entitled "Munch in Manhattan," in which a strange large-eyed figure tries to order and eat his meal, and the waiter keeps running back: "I'm John and I'll be your serving-person today!" Cut to man looking horrified, hands to sides of head. "How's it going with that menu?" Man looks more horrified. "Fresh-ground pepper on your salad?" Man has fully transformed into Munch's "The Scream."

2. Double tipping, where the service is included but not made clear on the bill and they allow you to tip again without saying anything.

I have heard of this, but I believe it is illegal -- I don't know about federally, but certainly it was illegal in Chicago, because I know one place that got slapped with a hefty fine for it. Turned out the waiter was doing this on the sly, so the restaurant paid the fine and then sued (and fired) the waiter, and collected a hefty sum. That'd be mid-90s if anyone wants to look it up; I don't remember what restaurant, but nothing super-fancy I think.

being charged for tap water

Not seen this one.

paying over the top for bottled water

Used to be normal in New York, but there was this big thing where everyone decided that bottled water was polluting the universe, so maybe that's changed.

pretentious menus written in Franglish, a mixture of French and English, and unusual cullinary terms that only chefs understand

Two versions of this are common here.

1. Every word qualified with an endless explanation of origin. There's no such thing as bacon any more, only "Cochon Porcine El Lardo Farm Organic Maple-Hickory-Applewood Smoked Prime Belly Bacon." Multiply by the rest of the menu item.

2. Authenticity demonstrated by a refusal to frame any menu item in anything but the native language (usually Italian or Spanish), and a careful instruction (apparently) to the waitstaff to deride any customer who doesn't know what the terms mean. Also popular in sushi restaurants, who serve frozen mediocrity but make a fuss about using only the "authentic" terms just like in Japan (meaning, just like in sushi restaurants in the immediate Tokyo area, since everywhere else the terms differ).

open salt and pepper bowls

I thought this was illegal. Chefs?

tiny portions

A running gag since la nouvelle cuisine, in the U.S. this has been replaced by the 50-Gallon Drum O'Meat, followed by the waiter showing up to ask, "you still working on that?"

over zealous servers rushing you so they can turn tables

There was a long article in the NY Times about this a few years ago, and people were indeed irritated. I recall distinctly that the staff at Daniel were essentially throwing people out to make room for the next reservation, which had been scheduled too soon.

[Koukouvagia]

I saw something like this on Gordon's F-word last week. Many irritating things apply to the US also, although open salt and pepper bowls would never be permitted in the US. I cringe when I see them on the table at people's houses in fact.

Double tipping is something I'm careful about now since it has happened to me here in NYC. I suggest everyone look carefully at your receipt because sometimes they have added gratuity to your bill.

I don't like being forced into turn-over. Being of european origin I like to enjoy my meal at a restaurant without jumping from course to course as speedily as possible. Most Americans are not like this though. They want to eat and they want to get out quickly and usually "allot" themselves a certain amount of time for eating by scheduling something for after dinner like a movie or going to the theater. In Greece where I'm from once a restaurant is full they tell you "sorry, we're full" they don't try to put your name on a list, they just send you away because they don't try to turn over the tables.

What I find most annoying is when I'm handed the check while I'm eating... "whenever you're ready!" It makes me feel rushed. I als don't like being asked "do you need change?" It's rude.

I never like being asked if everything is ok more than once. It's polite for the waiter to come by after the food has been served to see if everything meets your needs but to continuously ask me if I'm ok makes me feel like I'm being babysat. What is actually useful is keeping an eye on me so that if I need something I can get the waiter's attention easily.

[Bazza]

Interesting, open s&p bowls are not common here but I have seen them a few times they are horrible and I have been charged for tap water, again not really a common practise. Most of the others are standard gripes.

I have visited parts of Florida fairly regularly since the early eighties and back then I found the service (is everthing ok? type) a little strange but still quite nice. I had never heard of it before as we were very stuffy and pompous over here back then. But in the last 20 years we have adopted it proudly and you hardly ever leave a restaurant now without hearing "Have a nice day" its still nice but only if they mean it.

[RPMcMurphy]

packaged butter packets in anything 2-star and above.

terms on the menu that completely are not what it "Really" is, and misrepresent to sound good. you know...gastrique, emulsion, foam, blah blah. comes out with a quick pan sauce.

"fresh" before anything on the menu, or for godsake, that silly necessity to have a "Kobe Burger" or "Kobe Slider" on the menu.

10oz martini cocktail glasses.

cocktails called a martini, because they are served in said 10oz "martini" glasses....but haven't a hint of vermouth, or gin, and usually some fruity vodka.

[Koukouvagia]

RPM I have decided that for your birthday I'm buying you an industrial sized box of butter packets from Costco. You can hurl them at the froofroo chefs when they walk out the back door of the restaurant for a cig break.

[RPMcMurphy]

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia

RPM I have decided that for your birthday I'm buying you an industrial sized box of butter packets from Costco. You can hurl them at the froofroo chefs when they walk out the back door of the restaurant for a cig break.

Pssshhh what do you think I do when I'm served them?....take the whole basket full of them in NRatcheds purse....I'm saving up to unleash them on some unsuspecting restaurateur.



another faux pau.....when they don't announce the price of the "specials" and the "specials" are triple the price of what they are worth, and double the price of any other entree on the menu. This happened to me with just a silly ribeye once...I forget, but I think on the menu it was the same steak, maybe a lesser weight cut by 2 or 4 oz. but the price was DOUBLE when I got the bill....silly me for not asking the price, but I assumed it was close to it's similiar entree on the menu. nothing in the special warrented the price....no truffles, no rare earth magnets...nothing....just maybe a different seasoning and a pansauce or something.

[ChefAllen]

Originally Posted by ChrisLehrer

The New Yorker cartoonists have had a field day about this for decades. I remember one from the late 80s entitled "Munch in Manhattan," in which a strange large-eyed figure tries to order and eat his meal, and the waiter keeps running back: "I'm John and I'll be your serving-person today!" Cut to man looking horrified, hands to sides of head. "How's it going with that menu?" Man looks more horrified. "Fresh-ground pepper on your salad?" Man has fully transformed into Munch's "The Scream."
I have heard of this, but I believe it is illegal -- I don't know about federally, but certainly it was illegal in Chicago, because I know one place that got slapped with a hefty fine for it. Turned out the waiter was doing this on the sly, so the restaurant paid the fine and then sued (and fired) the waiter, and collected a hefty sum. That'd be mid-90s if anyone wants to look it up; I don't remember what restaurant, but nothing super-fancy I think.
Not seen this one.
Used to be normal in New York, but there was this big thing where everyone decided that bottled water was polluting the universe, so maybe that's changed.
Two versions of this are common here.

1. Every word qualified with an endless explanation of origin. There's no such thing as bacon any more, only "Cochon Porcine El Lardo Farm Organic Maple-Hickory-Applewood Smoked Prime Belly Bacon." Multiply by the rest of the menu item.

2. Authenticity demonstrated by a refusal to frame any menu item in anything but the native language (usually Italian or Spanish), and a careful instruction (apparently) to the waitstaff to deride any customer who doesn't know what the terms mean. Also popular in sushi restaurants, who serve frozen mediocrity but make a fuss about using only the "authentic" terms just like in Japan (meaning, just like in sushi restaurants in the immediate Tokyo area, since everywhere else the terms differ).
I thought this was illegal. Chefs?
A running gag since la nouvelle cuisine, in the U.S. this has been replaced by the 50-Gallon Drum O'Meat, followed by the waiter showing up to ask, "you still working on that?"
There was a long article in the NY Times about this a few years ago, and people were indeed irritated. I recall distinctly that the staff at Daniel were essentially throwing people out to make room for the next reservation, which had been scheduled too soon.

as far as all the things that are illegal; differ. country, differ. rules.

[ChefAllen]

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia

I saw something like this on Gordon's F-word last week. Many irritating things apply to the US also, although open salt and pepper bowls would never be permitted in the US. I cringe when I see them on the table at people's houses in fact.

Double tipping is something I'm careful about now since it has happened to me here in NYC. I suggest everyone look carefully at your receipt because sometimes they have added gratuity to your bill.

I don't like being forced into turn-over. Being of european origin I like to enjoy my meal at a restaurant without jumping from course to course as speedily as possible. Most Americans are not like this though. They want to eat and they want to get out quickly and usually "allot" themselves a certain amount of time for eating by scheduling something for after dinner like a movie or going to the theater. In Greece where I'm from once a restaurant is full they tell you "sorry, we're full" they don't try to put your name on a list, they just send you away because they don't try to turn over the tables.

What I find most annoying is when I'm handed the check while I'm eating... "whenever you're ready!" It makes me feel rushed. I als don't like being asked "do you need change?" It's rude.

I never like being asked if everything is ok more than once. It's polite for the waiter to come by after the food has been served to see if everything meets your needs but to continuously ask me if I'm ok makes me feel like I'm being babysat. What is actually useful is keeping an eye on me so that if I need something I can get the waiter's attention easily.

when I uaed to serve it went something like this:

15 sec or as soon as the coats are off meet and greet and direct the guest's attention to the apps menu(possible drink order)

return with drink order; suggest app., possible app. order(doesn't have to be the most expensive app. just that i honestly like it); if young children are present and depending on the age let them play with the toy I always carried so the adults could look at the menu more freely, also take childs order(taking child's order at this time can be a double edged sword, some parents like to go ahead and place it because their child may eat slow, however some parents may have fast eating children, so therefore would prefer to place the order when they place the child's order when they place their own. If you do suggest to take the child's order now and the parent wanted to place it with theirs; you have just opened the door for an inpatient child to start whinning. so what i am saying feel the guest out and play it by ear.)

return with app. (in a good kitchen this should only be a couple of minutes), suggest entree or take entree order and suggest entree upcharge, if child's order was placed it might be ready to bring to the table.

return with with salads, check drinks.

return with entree, check drinks

2 bite-2 minute check back, check drinks

clear plates, offer and suggest desert or coffee, check drinks

return with desert, check drinks

2 bite-2 minute check back, check drinks

clear plates, check drinks, drop bill(s)

check drinks, pick up bill

return with change (never ask if they need change, always return with exact change the guest will determine if they would like you to keep it)

check drinks, invite back


during the whole service always keep a watchfull eye on the table from afar and you will be able to maintain silent service and place the order using the point system.

[ChefAllen]

Originally Posted by Bazza

Diners in the UK have listed the following as their biggest gripes when eating out. The two that came out top of the list are;

1. Over attentive servers. Is everything ok? Is everything ok? Is everything ok?

2. Double tipping, where the service is included but not made clear on the bill and they allow you to tip again without saying anything.

Others include being charged for tap water, paying over the top for bottled water, pretentious menus written in Franglish, a mixture of French and English, and unusual cullinary terms that only chefs understand. Open salt and pepper bowls, tiny portions and over zealous servers rushing you so they can turn tables.

Interesting pointers for owners wishing to up their game. I know there have been many threads highlighting pet peeves on cheftalk, but on the points I have raised here, how do they compare to the US?

I am ashamed to admit it, but when I was still a green server I CHARGED for tap water; my excuse is I was fallowing restaurant policy, but the funny thing is that i never fallowed that policy again in any restaurant i have worked at. If you are or someone reading this is the guest I did that to all those years ago, I am sorry.

[OregonYeti]

Originally Posted by ChrisLehrer

Authenticity demonstrated by a refusal to frame any menu item in anything but the native language (usually Italian or Spanish), and a careful instruction (apparently) to the waitstaff to deride any customer who doesn't know what the terms mean. Also popular in sushi restaurants, who serve frozen mediocrity but make a fuss about using only the "authentic" terms just like in Japan (meaning, just like in sushi restaurants in the immediate Tokyo area, since everywhere else the terms differ).

I've been to Indian restaurants where I pronounce something correctly (I grew up in India), and the server says "you'd like some xxx?", not-so-subtly correcting my pronunciation and benevolently smiling, when they are the ones mispronouncing it. There's no way they were just making sure they understood . . . I put a bit of an American accent to it, and then they totally mess it up I'm a white guy, so they think I just don't know, I guess.

[ChrisLehrer]

I was at a French restaurant in Boston a couple years back, with a very full-of-himself waiter. At the table also were the majority of the Boston University French literature faculty, plus some of their colleagues from Harvard. One senior professor ordered and had her pronunciation "corrected" with a sneer by the waiter. Once he'd left the table, we all died laughing. We also left him a rotten tip (this wasn't his only faux pas) and a brief note... in French.

[OregonYeti]

HAH That's hilarious!

[Bazza]

To digress a little, this one really bugs me. There is an Italian restaurant local to me and they make such a big deal about the authentic Italian family restaurant thingy. Soooo here are some items from their Christmas menu, Chateaubriand, creme brulee and lemon souffle.

Also, my wife is manager of a restaurant with a French name but advertise Mediterranean fare including bruschetta, Spanish tortilla, lamb tagine and plenty of pasta dishes. It kind of puts me off going if they are not even sure of their own identity.

Is it just me?