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substitute for pectin

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
You all may remember that in recently I started to work at a Kosher restaurant. Things have been very interesting, mostly with the chef and he has left. I actually like the owner/chef and things are much much better. I still have some problems with the ingredients. Pectin for things like Pate a Fruit. what can I use? I also have a gelatin from England that is made from fish bones???? I cannot use either the knox or the gelatin leaves. ugh! I understand these very well but the one I have available really melts very strangely. Very difficult. I dont have alot of time to do lots of experiments. I hope you/someone could help me out. The other thing will sound strange to you. For some reason I cannot make an acceptable pastry cream using cornstarch with coffee rich or flour with coffee rich. I have tried using more yolks. It ends up having the consistancy offfff uhm, just plain runny pastry cream. I generally use pcp and this becomes perfect for piping and taste great. Please help me with this problem. I want to use these things in some fun specials. Thanks for anyones help
post #2 of 15
I just read about vegan marshmallows which use vegetable-derived gelatin.

I did a quick search for 'vegan gelatin' and came up with a couple resources. The package photo also claims Kosher/Parve.

Vegan Essentials

Recipe to make your own

Vegan Goods though they are currently out of stock.

Good luck. If you try this, let us know how it compares to non-vegan gelatin.
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #3 of 15
Also came across this site which offers explanation of ingredients that can be considered kosher...I think.

You might want to check it out or contact them to better understand what the list means. They list pectin and almost make it seem like it's safe. ??
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 

pectin

thanks for the reply. Let me invesigate your suggestions. we are building up to passover now and I have alot of work to do since this is my first year. I have a great Rabbi to guide me tho. I will tell you that my biggest problem is pastry cream without pcp and pectin.......and I dont seem to have the time to call anyone to help me. We are so busy!!! I will continue to work these things out. Thanks for your help, it means alot right now. Wiz
post #5 of 15
Just a quick question for you....

The pectin I use at work comes from 100% apples. There is no conflict with meat products. Is it that your brand is not specified as kosher or pareve? Also, have you tried to use potato starch in your pastry cream? Hope things are going well.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 

pectin

sorry its taken so long to get back to you. I use a gelatin made of fish bones. why, I dont know. Nobody seems to have an answer. Its quite expensive, and I need to call the organization that inported it. They should be able to help me. Its quite difficult to use as a gelatin. There is a fine line between being to gelatinous and not at all. I want to make Pate a Fruit. I know that I could make my own by using 100 % dried apples, but supposedly this does not work very well. I will look into the ready make product of 100% apples. Thanks for all of your advice. Let me know if there is any more. I need to get on here more, but I work such long hours. Fun tho. Talk to u later. W
post #7 of 15
Wizcat: I just this day got a 150g free sample of something called 'Mycryo' cocoa butter - a pourable powder sort of like fine sugar. The literature says it can be used as a quick temper for chocolate, or in mousses in place of gelatin. Going to play some with it tomorrow. But as pure cocoa butter, therefore vegetable, would it work for you?
Annie
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Annie
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post #8 of 15
I can't believe I missed this thread!
Here is a previous discussion that you may find interesting:

http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/s...ighlight=kojel

I used to make a kosher pastry cream with coffee rich without any problem. I reduced the sugar, obviously, because of the added sweetener in the coffee rich. Perhaps you have too much sugar in your recipe, causing the pastry cream to thin out.

Anyway, for what it's worth, this was the recipe I used to use in my kosher restaurant days:

2 qt. coffee rich
7 oz sugar
6 oz cornstarch
8 oz butter
8 eggs
4 yolks
1 vanilla bean]

HTH:) :chef:
post #9 of 15
Hi Wizcat--pectin is a fruit-based product I've only ever seen apple) so you should be able to find one that's kosher, that's your best bet. You could always experiment by adding (tart) apples to your fruit puree as well as some lemon juice and sugar. I've made jam this way (w/o commercial pectin) but am not sure how much apple you need to get it to pate de fruit consistency. If it doesn't set, you can add more of the apples, lemon juice or sugar and cook again. I would even suggest trying a cranberry and apple combo first for best chance of success since they both have lots of pectin. If yours is a non-dairy restaurant, you'll have to sub kosher margarine for the butter in the pastry cream recipe but my guess would be that you need more cornstarch in your original pastry cream recipe. BTW, can you tell me what is pcp? n :)
post #10 of 15

pectin and pastry cream

Most people dont realize that not only do processed products used in kosher non dairy kitchens need to meet the qualifications, but must only be approved by an association recognized within the kashrut community. As well, the product must be marked so as to indicate this status, and must also be approved by the mesgiach residing on premesis. So even though pectin may be made with apples, unless there is a governing body of Jewish scripture law professionals who recognize the product, it doesnt matter.

If you can't find pectin, there is a recipe in the Roux brothers book on patisserie which makes an apple jelly glaze. Reduce it and play with that instead.

As for the pastry cream, try the recipe for pastry cream in the CIA pastry book, it seems to work well with coffee rich.

Good luck.
post #11 of 15
Kosher in the typical professional kitchen is rather a problem.

If you are making pate a fruit, suggest:
Choice Confections by Walter Richmond.

Chocolate Confections by Peter Grewling.

For most savory things, please, use the classic french technique: just simmer it on the stove that much longer until you get the thickness you need. Labor expensive, yes, but you will get the correct results.
post #12 of 15
All the substitutes being recomended are useable provideing they are certified Kosher on the label by the Union of Orthodox Rabbis or other approved Rabbinical Certification.
Since Rich creamer contains high amount of vege oil that could stop it from thickening try their no fat one in the green container, also Tapicoa Starch could be used as could a modified food starch. Potato starch could be mixed in as could arrowroot.
CHEFED
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CHEFED
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post #13 of 15

I just found out about a substance call "clear gel".  My aunt uses it for making jams and jellies using sugar to taste.  She also uses it in her fruit pies.  It is a corn starch based product.  the following link with tell you about this product.  http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/using_clear_jel_03.pdf

post #14 of 15

Hi, 

 

For making jams i ´ve used instead of pectin, freen apple seeds and the heart or the piece in the middle of the green apples. I wrap them inside a fabric bag and put them to cook with the rest of the ingredients of the jam because the seeds and centerpiece are full of pectin and work quite well.

 

Hope it helps...

post #15 of 15

hello !!!

 

i noticed the many replies regarding pectin and subs etc,,,

 

i also noticed NO ONE knows or has mentioned agar-agar !!!,, which is 100% halal and kosher  and is made from seaweed,,

 

sets up VERY well !! , comes in either sheets  , or powdered , or long shredded like spaghetti , or in 1x1x12" shredded compressed sticks,, and is CHEAP to buy

 

VERY available at ANY asian stores !!!

 

go ahead,, try it,,

warning tho,, a small packet about 1/2 ounce will set up 3 lbs liquid,, so dont use more than you need or the product will end up hard as a rock

 

 

let me know what you think

 

experiment with a bit first and plain water to see what and how much you need

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