viking v. dcs
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DcsI am remodeling my kitchen and have purchased a 36" DCS gas stove w four eyes and a grill. It will be installed this fall. After a lot of research I decided on DCS over all others including Viking and Wolf, because of what I had read on this website and others, that Viking is outsourced, that is others make various parts of the stove, that most "professional" home stoves are really regular consumer appliances changed on the outside to look like a professional stove, but DCS takes a commercial stove and modifies it to go in the home. Also, some Viking owners here in my community have had problems with them. The following is from a post to this website:
This message is actually from my s.o. who does this stuff for a livin'. Hope it helps and it's not too late...
"I am in the distribution business of appliances and have a lot of exposure to all the appliances out there.
I will start by saying this, there is a lot of misconception out there in the "pro appliance market"
I will try to best break down what I do know of the individual product. Really the best thing to do is REALLY look at the product in a over-detailed way.
VIKING- Probably the best advertisers out there, the range is IMHO mediocre. The burners are simple stamped stainless steel that does a less than average flame distribution. This is VERY important when you have that flame cranking out. You're really only effectively hitting the edge of the pans. ALOT of Viking is also sourced from other manufacturers. Up until about a year ago the refrigerator was made by Amana which was literally 1/2 the price. This is until Viking bought them. The dishwasher is also sourced althought I don't know by whom and the same goes for a lot of their accessory items such as the wine unit, and icemaker which is manufactured by MARVEL ( a very high quality but underated company). But you are paying about 33% more for viking. What this basically means is YOU ARE PAYING FOR A NAME !!
GARLAND- Garland residential cooking appliances are perhaps the BEST cook tops on the market the truth is in the burners. They have a solid cast iron "star" burner that has a range up to 18,000 btu's and also a simmer that goes very low. It's these star burners that give them the BEST heat and flame usage and distribution. Essentially this is what alot of pros use but this is a scaled down version for home (perfectly insulated). Garland only makes cooking probucts such as cooktops, ranges, and hoods- no wall ovens or other appliances. Garland's ovens only come in gas and have open burners.
WOLF/SUBZERO- Wolf is Subzeros new baby. Subzero bought Wolf out about 1.5 years ago and is marketing them to death. Wolf has always made a good quality range product. Very underated until subzero started giving them a lot of exposure. They have a semi-sealed burner constuction which makes clean up fairly easy and 2 stage burners so you get good heat distribution. Wolf is also releasing a whole new line up of products. Subzero is still the only refrigerator manufacturer using the 2 compressors. Great quality units that don't have the laundry list of service and comressor issues that they had with some of the earlier "500" and previous series units.
THERMADOR- Thermador is still the only pro range manufactuer that uses 100% sealed burners. They also have a "star" shaped burner that is only available on the Dual fuel ranges (gas cooktop w/ electric oven) and cooktops. The all gas oven uses a round sealed burner that has poor flame distribution like the Viking. Thermador also sources their dishwasher from Bosch (Bosch/Siemans also owns Thermador) but overall decent product throughout the line. You will pay "popular brand" pricing on this merchandise.
G.E. Monogram- This is a VERY sourced out line of product, the only thing that GE makes in this line is the refrigerator, the range is a DCS, the wall oven is Bosch, the dishwasher is a Regency, the wine and beverage units are from Marvel. You are basically paying for a lable that says GE Monogram that matches the other appliances in your kitchen.
DCS- Here is another manufactuer of true pro cooking product that has a line up for residential. DCS is an underrated product as they dont have the advertising budget of some of the other brands. But overall a solid range with good flame distribution.
There are other brands out there such as Kitchen Aid, Dacor, Five Star, Miele, etc.
All the manufacturers also have good web sites as well.
If you need more information I will be more than happy to respond.
p.s. NOT a fan of consumer reports magazine! At least for appliances they shoot themselves in the foot many times. "
I like the design of the DCS gas eye, being able to turn it down to a simmer that is so low that you can melt chocolate without a double boiler, that the eye does not turn off and on with the annoying electrical clicking but actually stays "on" but very low. I did not want to pay several thousand dollars more for a dual fuel DCS stove and I really wanted an all gas stove, so because I needed two ovens, I purchased a separate 27" Thermador electric convection oven. Consumer Reports rated Thermador high. I also do not agree with what CR says about stoves and ovens for the most part. ABout 7 years ago I purchased a gas stove based on what CR says, and I have worn it out. I bakes breads on the average of two to three times a week, and in my opinion a stove should stand up to that amount of use better than mine has. Hope this helps.
DCS 48"You seem very well informed. I had pondered Wolf, DCS, Jade (fka Dynasty) for quite some time. Finally narrowed it down to Wolf and DCS.
I think the DCS is more powerful, and I mean to replace my Thermador Gas Cooktop with the DCS stove. I like the DCS more because of the more powerful BTU's (18,000 BTU grill and griddle vs. 16000 on the Wolf, and 17,500 BTU burners vs. Wolf's 15,000), but also, it seems the only stove I can find that has the same arrangement of 4 burners grouped together, then the grill, and then the griddle.
It seems to me that the Wolf, et al, having two burners on either side of the grill and griddle wouldn't allow you as much flexibility in arranging large stock pots, for instance. The Dynasty is the same way.
But when I looked at the DCS in person, the burner grates seem rather flimsy compared to what I have on my Thermador 48" gas cooktop. I recently found out that the early Thermadors were actually manufactured by DCS!
So, what about those grates? Why I like the Thermador ones I have now is that they are so massive, they are really really heavy, but that allows a much greater specific heat content long after the burners are turned off. I have found that to be very useful for keeping stuff warm for up to 20-30 minutes without risking any scorching, etc.
What do you think?
How about resi cooktops?This thread has been unwinding for a while but hopefully there is still a little left on the spool! I'm currently in the market for cooktop, vent/hood, and oven. I have limited space and budget and do not particurly see the advantage of making my kitchen look like one in a hotel restaurant if there is not a major advantage to commercial vs. residential lines. It seems that the major difference between commercial and residential cooktops is that the commercial units have at least 4 burners with 15,000+ btu's. I have been unhappy with with ability to control my older electric elements so I have presumed that a gas cooktop with at least one burner of 15,000+ BTU's is best choice. Having only had the option of cooking on sub-standard electric cooktops in the past, any of these high-end gas cooktops will seem like a god-send.
I had narrowed my search to DCS (CT-365) or Dacor (PGM 365) stainless steel 36" 5 burner cooktops, and I have also researched the Thermador SGSX365ZS after reading prior-postings in this thread. On the recommendation of an appliance salesman I am also now researching the GE Monogram ZGU375NSDSS.
The advantage of the DCS over the Dacor and Thermadore is that all 5 burners have the 140 degree simmer capability and it has higher total BTU (all 5 burners) than the other two units. However, I am even more impressed with the GE Monogram specs. It is my understanding that the burners on this GE model are made by either Dacor or DCS. It has 140 degree simmer capability on all 5 burners (a dedicated burner ring for simmering) and total BTU's on all 5 burners of 61,000. 1x15k, 2x12k, and 2x10.5. It has electronic ignition and "burner on" lights for each burner. It is priced better than all the aforementioned units with a street price of about $1,000. Am I missing something? Is there a reason NOT to buy this unit?
Guidance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
How about Capital, and Duel vs gas onlyI too am looking now at 36" ranges. The Capital line is new, and seems nice. Very much like a DCS, but that is to be expected. Does anyone have any experience looking at or purchasing Capital? I could only find one local sales outlet, and no internet sales. Hmmmmm.......
As of now, I have narrowed my choices to the gas only- I know self-clean would be better (Although I will consider duel fuel if I can find a decent price) 6 burner convection oven from Viking and DCS, as well as Capital as my dark horse candidate.
Should I spend the extra money (Over $1000) for duel fuel and self-clean? I use the oven for both large meats roasting, clay cooker, and for baking pizza/cookies/deserts.
I'm limited to a 30" opening (I'm not going to carve up my granite countertops). I'm already shopping for dual fuel models. Good luck with your search!
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
Kitchen remodelhi all, I might be reading this all wrong but the thread regarding dcs vs. viking seems one year old.
all appliances have been updated in the last year and companies have been buying out other companies, i.e. f&P bought dcs.
three years ago I found out about dcs as a better choice to dacor for both oven and cooktop.
Larger, bottom freezer refrigerator has been updated to the new french door, 25 cu. ft. with ice on the outside of the door.
Dishwashers have all gotten quieter and more effective.
My tentative choices to date:
DCS-CS-366 or the other one with 4 burners and grill
DCS- 30" electric wall oven
LG s/s 25 cu. ft.
Miele (which one is unknown)
s/s 30" farm house sink for main counter
s/s 24" farm house sink
Would anyone please comment?
I am sure I will have to shave costs and want to be prepared for alternatives with the appliances. We have a possible wholesale contact for GE (oy) and might consider the GE profile ZGU36L6HSS.
Alternative to the Miele DW
I first ran across Fisher & Paykel, but became leary dude to all the "self clean" break downs and negatice reviews i was reading. I then ran across electrolux, miele, thermadore and finally "the viking". I then read bad things on thermadore ovens so i eliminated them. i also eliminated miele and electrolux due to looks. so now i sit at deciding between Fishel & Paykel and Viking. which then brought me to this site... where i stumble upon DCS. Sure enough, i find that DCS has been bought by Fisher & Paykel.. things have come full circle. It looks like it is now between FIsher and Paykel and the Viking electric ovens and cooktops.
Do I have the wrong two in my final round here??? please help, it will be 6 months or so before i purchase the set, but i am really getting too much of this full circle here. Is there a best between these, or is there something better i have elminated?
You HAVE to look at the details. Take a good look at what you want to buy, in person, not looking at factory specs: Burners made of stamped steel will burn out-fast--just like a cheap bbq burner. Also the size of the burner is a huge factor. Tiny (2"dia.) burners focus the heat on a small area of the pan/pot with uneven heat distribution. The grids that the pots/pans sit on should be made of heavy cast iron or very heavy welded steel. Thin, lacy (cheap..) cast iron grids will break or snap in no time. Porcelainized grids will scorch and the porcelain will flake off in no time--same goes for the bowls under the burners. If you use the stovetop regularily the porcelainized surfaces will like like he** in a very short time.
We recently remodeled our kitchen, and I got talked into a package of Dacor 30" gas cooktop, Dacor warming oven, Dacor oven and Dacor microwave. I am not happy.
The first problem arose with the cooktop. I had been assured that I would be able to simmer which to me means just below boiling. Dacor actually means a setting that is so low that you can melt chocolate at 80 degrees F. The lowest setting on the simmer burner boils liquid at a rapid boil or you can turn it to simmer which is too low to cook anything. There is no in between. I couldn't get the seller or Dacor to do anything about the discrepancy. Dacor's answer to my dilemma is a "simmer" burner which is a thick metal plate which takes forever to heat up and cannot be easily adjusted up or down if necessary. Not a satisfactory solution at all and an extremely wasteful use of the heat.
The next problem was with the microwave. It turns out it is far less powerful than the cheap GE under the upper cabinets microwave I had in my last kitchen. There is a popcorn setting, but when I tried it, nothing happened, no popping. After 2 or 3 tries I called Dacor and was told that the directions for the microwave tell you to set the bag of popcorn on an upside down microwavable bowl. Who needs to read directions to pop popcorn? You do if you have a Dacor oven. When I tried it their way, the bag of popcorn fell off the bowl and kept falling off. After opening the door several times, the kernels were only about 75% popped. It's great for melting chocolate though.
The third problem is the wall oven. I can never tell whether it is going to cook according the time given in my recipe. Sometimes it takes far longer than I expect, and sometimes it's done far sooner and thus overdone at the least amount of time specified. I never know which it will be. By the time I discovered the problem it was out of warranty.
The fourth problem is the warming oven. It is very slow to heat up, so I have to start it far in advance of when it is needed. I don't usually know in time that I'm going to need it, and if I start it early enough and don't need it, I've wasted the electricity.
If anyone has suggestions I would appreciate hearing them. I am especially interested in a replacement cooktop that will actually allow me to simmer. I don't need or want to melt chocolate on my cooktop. I want a simmer that would be recognized by Webster's New American Dictionary. I had a GE Monogram range in my last house, and I really loved it. It had the kind of simmer I wanted on all four burners and quite high heat on two burners. It also had a really nice feature available on all burners. You could turn over the grate for each burner and you would have a wok grate. What would be my best bet for a replacement cooktop?
Hi there. Does your industry friend have any word that's new on DCS since it was bought by Fisher Paykel? I have to purchase today, and still have conflict about DCS vs. Viking (that says it's fixed its ignitor clicking and has major rebates) vs. Wolf.. I'm getting a 30" gas range. My friends have DCS and LOVE but they bought before the buy-out. My local store (Gringers in NYC) says DCS under new management has bad service and doesn't recommend. So confusing. Also, are sealed burners easier or harder to clean in the end? And does the fractional difference in heat performance in sealed really matter? THANKS.