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Ciabatta help

post #1 of 27
11/7/04 at 12:37pm
Thread Starter 
For the past three weeks, I have been attempting to make a decent loaf of ciabatta.

I have experimented with different recipes. My first few loafs were flat and came out looking like focaccia. Today, I used the Peter Reinhardt recipe and the loafs came out looking wonderful! Then, when I sliced into the loaf, it revealed a very dense crumb with many small holes.

What is my problem?
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post #2 of 27
11/8/04 at 1:38pm
Hello!

That recipe works really well. I tried it a few times and the first time, I had the same problem with small holes. I tried it again and really really tried not to degass is and it worked. Try not to handle it so much and be gentle. See if that works. Also, allow a little more time for proofing.

good luck!
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post #3 of 27
11/8/04 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 

Thank you

Thank you for the response.

I barely handled the dough and didn't noticably degas when transfering to the oven.

One thing I notice is that if I proof for a long period of time, after a point, it stops expanding and the outside of the dough toughens up a bit...
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post #4 of 27
11/9/04 at 7:10am
I'm having trouble too. I've made this bread before a few years ago and it came out perfectly. Now it comes out with a fine crumb and few holes. How many times should I be doing the stretch and fold? Could I be overproofing it? I'm very frustrated at this point.
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post #5 of 27
11/9/04 at 7:14am
I've had great experiences with ciabatta made using a Nancy Silverton recipe. One thing, to get the lovely large holes, make sure your dough is on the wet side. The dryer it is, the smaller the holes. Also, you can lightly moisten the top of the loaf prior to baking. This will help it expand in the oven.

I LOVE ciabatta! Now I'm going to need to make some! :D

becca
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post #6 of 27
11/9/04 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 

Ciabatta

It would be really helpful if someone could post step-by-step photos of the process of making a wet-dough bread.
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post #7 of 27
11/9/04 at 8:01am
I can do this over the next couple of days. I have a digital camera. I'll start the process later today. Do you start with a sourdough starter?

becca
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post #8 of 27
11/9/04 at 8:18am
Thread Starter 
Wow... that would be amazing!

Do what you usually do. You're the teacher!

(In the past, I have started with a poolish pre-ferment)
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post #9 of 27
11/10/04 at 5:32pm
I've made Rienhart's Ciabatta a few times and had mixed results. Sometimes fine crumb, sometimes open crumb with those gorgoeus holes. Same process every time and I can't understand why it is different. But one thing remains consistent - It tastes good every time.

Jock
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post #10 of 27
11/11/04 at 2:18pm
I use a sourdough starter that a friend gave me a few years ago. I've completed making the bread, with photos of all the steps. I'll work on editing the photos and instructions, and will get it uploaded in the next day or so. We're in the process of packing up our house for a move from CA to WA, so I'm not as quick as usual.

More info soon.
becca
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post #11 of 27
11/12/04 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 

Good luck on the move

Good luck on the move. If you encounter any problems, please let me know. I am in the mortgage industry and know how hectic and problematic closings can be!
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post #12 of 27
11/12/04 at 12:22pm
It's not exactly step by step, more like step I remembered to take a pic of by step I remembered to to take a pic of, but here it is:

Ciabatta-Bing!

Wetter is better is the mantra for ciabatta bliss. You don't really shape it, you plead with it. The reason it has the shape it does is because it's too wet to hold any other shape :)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #13 of 27
11/12/04 at 12:52pm
Great photos! You've certainly captured the essence of ciabatta! I don't think I can add anything to what you have done. Excellent job.

becca
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post #14 of 27
11/12/04 at 2:37pm
Why thanks :)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #15 of 27
11/12/04 at 4:39pm
Thread Starter 

Wow

You really did a wonderful job on the photos and the bread!

I would love to see more of the turning process after the dough has been mixed.
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post #16 of 27
11/13/04 at 5:56am
I would have taken pics of that part of the process but it takes both hands and I don't have a tripod :) You just dump the mess out onto the board, pull the left side out and fold it about 2/3 of the way across, do the same thing with the other side, top and bottom. Invert the resulting blob and put it back in the bowl.
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #17 of 27
11/13/04 at 6:21am
Kyle, is your recipe listed on the website? I missed it if it is.

becca
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post #18 of 27
11/13/04 at 6:25am
No, I don;t have recipes on my site. I hate A: typing and B: violating copyright laws :) The ciabbata in the pics is the one from Artisan Bkaing Across America, by personal bread guru Maggie Glezer.
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #19 of 27
11/13/04 at 6:30am
Thanks for the info. Didn't know if it was a published recipe or a Kyle original.

Do you wet your hands when you work with the blob turning? I've had more success by wetting my hands than by flouring them. Just curious what you do.

becca
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post #20 of 27
11/13/04 at 11:47am
Thread Starter 

Maggie Glezer

So, is Maggie Glezer's book your most utilized?
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post #21 of 27
11/13/04 at 11:57am
It's a toss up between her and Peter Reinhart.

Becca - I don't wet my hands. I tried that once and it got pretty ugly. I let the copius bench flour protect me from the blob. I also thin that fear of sticking helps me handle the dough more gently.
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #22 of 27
11/15/04 at 7:45pm
Wow those pictures look great. Im a bread-a-holic, i think i need to give this one a try for sure!
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post #23 of 27
11/16/04 at 2:22am
Thats just great. Hi 5 to you on da Ciabatta-Bing!!!
Looks like a great example as well.
:)
What did I get myself into???
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post #24 of 27
12/10/04 at 10:15am
Thread Starter 

Failure

Since Kyle posted the photos, I purchased Maggie Glezer's book and tried to emulate the results shown. I have tried it once a week since the posting and have failed each time. I just can't create the massive holes displayed. I'm lucky if I have a couple holes in the entire loaf; it's pretty dense.

HELP!!!
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post #25 of 27
12/14/04 at 1:49pm
I can't stress this enough. This dough needs to be just this side of unmanageable. It really has to start out as more of a batter than a doudough. We're talking really, really wet here. If you can control the dough, just after it's been mixed, it is way, way too firm. We're talking soup, not solid. Only after the turnings, during fermantation, does this stuff becaome borderling handleable.

And once it is borderline handleable, you need to be very gentle with it. It's not like your going to be able to manhandle it, more like you're trying to coax it into place :-)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #26 of 27
12/14/04 at 6:36pm
Thread Starter 

Kyle

Thanks for the response.

I do have the dough in a state where I can barely handle it. My dough seems to match yours in the photos...
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post #27 of 27
1/10/05 at 1:54pm

Ciabatta

Still haven't succeeded in makinbg Ciabatta with the big holes.
I really think we need to see the whole process on CD or video tape.
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