Drug Usage and Chefs - Page 2

The rights of individuals

Ma Facon - You sound like you are ex-military or practicing Amish. The idea that you can take a facist approach to controlling the lives of your employees outside of work rings of a level of control which one human should not take over the life of another human. If you have never taken any drugs, which is certainly the way your posts read, then I commend your personal fortitude, and lament the lack of knowledge you have regarding addiction. Every user is not an addict, and every person who uses substances is not destined to abuse them. And lastly, it doesn't matter what your "view" is when you are drinking, you're still using a drug.

True, Using [once or twice in the year ] not abusing. Like I said I don't care what othere do with there life, When it effects them in a negative way it will effect there performance on the job and in there personal life, That is there choice. I don't set out to control othere but rather set positive examples for them, What they decide to do, I can't control and wouldn't want to. But at least I don't set bad examples for my co-workers or follow there destructive ways. Yes I am firm, Focused, and able to complete any task at hand in a timely and orderly fashion with time/energy to spare Just in case I have to pick someone elses slack or get ahead of the ball as to expedite the next task. I am just being the best that I can be. :chef:

This can go back and forth all day long. So this is my last post on this subject. I would rather swim on that tread these waters.:chef:

I have been cheffing for 30 years and I know what goes on in kitchens and I also know what should go on in kitchens, Not to mention I know a little about life itself.

I hate to preach but hey...

I've never used the stuff nor do I ever intend to regardless the fact I'm relativily new to working in a kitchen. Its become like a sort of bar I'll never jump.
My mother's bf was cavalier with drugs in his ealier days up until roughly 10 years ago, or so he says. Whatever he took just wreaked havoc to his head. Hes naturally insecure and the drugs he took just made it worse, boarderline paranoia. His drug addiction had caused us so many problems, we're still paying for it now (we as in me, my mother, and half my maternal family). Because of him, I lost all my inheritance from my grandmother, had far too many sleepes nights to count, and turned violent when kicking him out (I'm not a violent person to begin with). Hes my roll model of someone I don't want to become.
I don't care for any drugs even if its something light weight like weed, it all plays on your mind. Its so irresponsible of my mothers bf for dragging us all into his problems and extreamly stupid of my mother for allowing it to happen.

I believe the original question was wether and why (if it's true) is there more drug use and/or more vices among chefs and cooks, than many other respectable professions.
I have my opinions but I would like to see some of yourses.

Deep Thoughts....

Why does it seem like people in this business use/abuse more drugs?
Some of the famous reasons I have heard…..
1.The stamina it takes to get the job done over many hours. Some take certain drugs for the adrenalin/speeding effects…i.e., coke, meth, speed, etc. Feeling they can’t do another close/open without something stronger than coffee. I have certainly popped a few Vivarin after working all night and having to make a 6:30am lab for school on more that a few occasions. Legal yes. Same effect? Basically, and infinitely cheaper.
2.Some people do it because they want to escape some form of pain they encounter in this business. i.e., alcohol, pot, heroin, acid, dust, etc… (Although I don’t know many heroine addicts that last too long. The drug slows them down and makes them sleepy for the most part in my observation). The emotional pain of working such long hours, you have no time for friends, spouses, or children, or sleep. The pain of losing the aforementioned people because of the choices they made in this business while trying to build a career. Or other miscellaneous personal emotional issues.
3.Some people are just simply burned out in the business and it keeps them going and makes them “happier” to be there. They may like the biz…and have no interest in changing professions…but they are not “happy” about going to work.
And there are about 1,879, 467 other stupid reasons people choose to use or abuse drugs. I am no stranger to drug use I did in my younger days. I would wake and bake because it made standing in the heat and being in the rush more doable if you will. I learned to get of of the pure adrenaline the stress gives me now. I no longer feel I need to escape my day to day reality. I like me and my life now, so being in the present is a good thing! Back then I really didn’t.
I take nothing away from anyone who has kicked a habit be it alcohol, nicotine or drugs legal or not. However I believe that all decisions to use drugs/alcohol are exactly that choices, weather you have been labeled an addict or not….and we as employers have the choice to employ or not employ anyone for almost any reason. We can institute a drug policy if we are so inclined.
I agree with the poster of live and let live. As long as it’s not on my clock (and as a former user I can spot active users on my watch. Dilated pupils? Sweating profusely, lip licking, swishing of the tongue, constant sniffling and your not sick…I know most of, if not all the signs and keep my eyes on staff for frequent bathroom breaks, running out to the car and the like). I am however not their parent or keeper. I make my statements when I can, because maybe, just maybe something will get through. But I leave it at that. I don’t preach just simply encourage in a mentor-ish way.
No one is saying that we should allow such behavior….I think overall what is being said is we are not their parents or guardians. What they do on the off time is theirs; just don’t bring it to work. And yes for the most part use or abuse catches up with everyone one way or another. It’s inevitable.

other professions....

Oh I worked for a completely coked out lawyer (very popular and successful in his area as well).
Alcoholic sales managers (who ranked in the top 5% of the company)
I have known a couple of Dr’s who were addicted to weight loss pills, known a few who were alcoholics too.
Known of Dentists that were speed and coke freaks.
Mother’s who were heroin addicts.
We all know what happened to Rush Limbaugh and many other celebrities who have abused drugs or alcohol, legal or not.
I don’t think it’s unique to food service, I just think we have gotten the rep because people are more connected to what they eat than who is acting in the latest movie, or who they buy their insurance from.
Our industry has also had a spotlight on it the last 10 years or so, and more is becoming known about it.
Prior to the last decade or so most anyone could have walked into many food service establishments and gotten a job with little or no prior skills. Unskilled labor typically tends to be people living unstable lives. It’s like that with day laborers and other unskilled job markets. To say it’s exclusive or rampant with food service is native and ignorant. Most high stress jobs draw many people into unhealthy behaviors.
Frizbee

Just my thoughts. no barking.
This industry has accepted use at work. There are not to many others that do. Therfore, exposure. I think the numbers are off.
Users will not usually put their business in the street. Abusers often will by signs, actions,verbal etc.
I have sat and chatted with chefs while watching the sautee, broiler etc. strongly working the dinner push, while using or abusing.
Chefs usually proud. Me, can't help think how good he or she would be clean.
PS please, lets not judge people by what they post.
opinionated posters help rid the gray area for some.

had to chuckle:""Sweating profusely, lip licking, swishing of the tongue, constant sniffling and your not sick…I"" I'm guilty of all these when it's summer here in Tx.:crazy:

Pick an industry.... any industry

It is funny that you mentioned that. I was watching a program about substance abuse and (what else..?) rock stars! So, my wife and I were discussing what industry doesn't have substance abuse? You mentioned doctors (the long hours, the pressure...) How about mechanics ('party with the guys')? How about plumbers (... just a quick escape from the dirt and grime...)? How about _________ fill in the blank?!

You said it! It is everywhere... sometimes more public than other times. Look around... how many people are currently abusing or recovering from abuse? It is not industry-specific. Certainly there are 'environmental' factors that may make participants more apt to partake.

We could spend days, weeks, months debating the role of our industry in substance abuse, but it really does come down to your own definition of abuse as well as your own morality.

Drug use

I have been in this industry since 1975. I started very young and I have noticed that this industry does have its more then fair share of addicts and users. I for one, was one. Whether it was smoking a joint in the freezer, doing lines, drinking an ample supply of booze provided by the Chef, popping any number of speed pills, snorting crystal, etc. I never felt that I was an addict. Chefs have available to them some of the finest booze this world can offer and it is fully available to them. This is why alcholism was so prevalent and still is in this industry. As far as drugs are concerned, before '87 this industry was way out of control. Then the big hotel chains started to have a zero tolerance against drugs. There were to many unexplained accidents happening and the cost of workmans comp insurance was flying out of the roof. By '93 I finally grew up and had to completly give up on controlled substances. I was a single dad and I was left with both of my kids to raise. SO with this on my lap I had to change. I still drink but it is far less and more controlled then It ever used to be. Drinking and driving were a norm for me when I got off of work due to drinking on the job before '93.
For the past twelve years I have adopted a zero tolerance against controlled substance in the business and I don't allow drinking on the job unless the owner has given his express consent and has provided the crew with a beer. I have fired employees due to constant drug use or alcholism and the resulting bad job performance that is garaunteed. I have heard every sob story, excuse and amazing tales from abusers. They are never at fault because they lack the guts to take responsibility. You may see a kid or sous Chef that is a "talent" and an abuser; but I can stake my reputation on this, they are no more then flashes in a pan. Soon to be put out and forgotten. Is this the life for you? I have seen it over and over again, more times then you care to know. When you are on my dime and on my time I expect you to shine. If you play then you pay. I have had the joy of handling terribly hungover employees. It only lasts once or maybe twice. The employees find out they never want to come to work hung over on my time again. I have special duties for them and I drive them hard. I basically have taught them to respect my work place. This in turn teaches them to be responsible citizens after work so they don't show up to work totally stupid and dangerous the following day. They can quit. This acton gaurantees that they will not get another respectable job in this town. I am well known and people that quit on me due to there abuse is a red flag for other Chefs in town. They simply won't be hired for any responsible job in a kitchen. I don't say anything to anybody but other Chefs know that when an ex-employee is slamming me at an interview then that means that it wasn't me rather it was the employee that was the problem. I am also very easy going but I have my rules. You follow the rules and I am happy. It is just that simple.
As far as telling your Uncle. Believe me, if he participates in drug use even if it is just "recreational" then he already knows that the sous Chef is lit. It sounds that it is fine with him so you would be wasting your breathe with him and losing the trust from fellow employees. If I were you I would stick around for awhile, keep it low. Don't participate with any of the drugs that the sous chef offers to you. (He is setting you up), learn what you can and then quit for a better job. Don't burn your bridge with your uncle but if he comes to you asking what and why then you can inform him that you don't feel comfortable working in an environment that condones drug use. Don't point the finger at anyone, don't say any names because he already knows who is at fault. The ball is in his court to change things around but as far as you are concerned you are headed to a better job. If he does change things around and wants you back then you have gained his respect. The other employees don't know what has happened because they think you have quit so you haven't lost anything with them nor have you pointed the finger at anyone so you are in the clear with them. If you do come back then you should be working for a supposedly cleaner work environment. This is when you set a good example of yourself by being that good example to follow. In due time you should be acquiring more responsibilities and generally earning the respect of your co-workers. You mentioned that you were just a prep cook. You still need to pay your dues to this industry. Being a sous chef is not going to happen next week or next year. Just keep with it and always study the industry.
Sincerely,
David

To be honest I really didn't use or abuse drugs until I started working in a restaurant. By the way, I am just turning 19 in Feb. It only took me a year as a line cook before the life took affect.

drugs are everywhere

Hey,
drugs are everywhere, but yes because of the stress involve in our trade, drugs are common.

Number one, drugs are bad for you and will only slowdown you career. Yes, this is a great book, but keep in mind, this is an exception, Bourdain made it OK, but how many don't... You may only take drugs outside work, but trust me it shows in your performance. I have hired hundreds of cooks in my 20 years career, and eventually it shows. Late days, slow thinking, behavior stuff like short temper, etc... IT SHOWS!

So, best advice I can give you, your advancement has nothing to do with drugs, but everything to do with your performance. Tell or don't tell, but you should stop and apply to your trade if you REALLY want to make it good. Now, if you want to be an average cook for the rest of your life, it really does not matter that much what you do on your own time. Great chef have a personal life that reflect their professional life.

If you want to read something interesting after "Kitchen Confidential" try my book:
www.thechefinstead.ca/beachef.html

Ciao, and goo luck,

Laprise

Drugs are pretty common, and are a problem for a lot of people. I have watched people that are so called "better" with a hit of something really mess themselves up. It seems to me that peoples talent and skills overcome there problems or there problems overcome them. There is nothing productive of drug use in the kitchen. You cant cheat the devil, getting better and stronger takes time and dedication (and a lot of pain). Not pills.

PS

After being in a few kitchens that have had these problems, and a few that haven't, I learned more in places where drugs weren't apparent.

Vonnegut Quote

"Loud music and moderate drug use make boring and stressful situations infinitely more tolerable"

Sometimes my fellow pastry cook gets drunk at work and doesn't do a THING, leaving me to pick up all of the slack. IT sucks.

I think that some opiates (in a small, prescription amount) is okay in the kitchen sometimes. It does make it more tolerable, and it doesn't make me work any less. However, if it becomes something that you need in order to tolerate work, then it becomes a problem. I'm sure many agree and it's been said already.

I'm surprised noone has considered the liability issues involved. We live in such a litagous society that ANY owner has to be extra careful. So your hopped up sous decides that this is the night to try something "a little more ...interesting..." and ends up bobbing for french fries...

As for talking to your uncle, well, if you are doing it to get ahead, you probably don't have the passion to survive long term in this business. (OUCH! That was harsh...) Thing is, your first concern shouldn't be "is this a career move", or "geez, but he's a buddy of mine..." It's about what's right for the business. Not the bottom line (although that's important too, lord knows) but hey...if you were signing the cheques, would you still be wondering what to do?
If, as has been suggested, ther's a likelihood your uncle knows already, you could try asking him the same question you origionally posted...on an "idle curiousity" basis.
And if he doesn't know? Well, how's the old career path lookin' when (not if, but when,because he will...) he finds out this is happening, is unimpressed, and then discovers you knew all along, and didn't say anything? <especially seein' as how you're family????>

Rockies

I was a sous somewhere in the Rockies for 2 years, in my team of 33 cooks, 26 of them smoke put everyday, and many of them 2 to 5 times a days...

Many of them were washed off kind of cooks with no place to go but down...

Drugs is fun for while, but ultimately, it will slow down your advancement!!:beer: :beer: :beer:

Drug use? Yeah...

I worked for a very famous 5 star wannabe just North of Yellowstone. I was hired to replace the "promoted" (I was told they invented the position for her) Head Baker. I was virtually the only baker/pastry chef most of the week and prided myself on my intense imagination, insane work ethics and artistic/cooking skills. I'm very driven and in spite of raves about my pastries, (and a lot of them disappearing because of Line Chef munchies) I actually got COMPLAINTS about my working too many hours even though I was the only one?

Over the course of my time there, I was asked directly by the weekend breakfast kitchen manager if I smoked pot. Um...no...but why did this come up when I was pounding bread? He said in a completely offhanded fashion: we do. (He is married to the "new F & B manager" I was hired to replace who had worked there for several years)

At one point I was told that they couldn't use those gas canisters for whipped cream because the line cooks would "USE" them.

God knows what else went on but from the menu I'd think it was something pretty heavy. Sorry, but in my opinion the weirder the menu is doesn't/or shouldn't directly correlate with how many STARS a restaurant gets. (trust me this menu was really bizarre)

The new F&B's "managerial skills" pretty much validated this fact. She was a space cadette most of the time and didn't have a clue about people who are passionate and talented (She was promoted from housekeeping and learned it from the prior Head Baker by grunt not by instinct.) A good manager needs to recognize chefs that don't really need micromanaging. At the same time she didn't have a clue about what I can and was accomplishing on a daily basis.

Drug tests...I think it should be given a thought...working with fire and knives...while seeing spiders on the wall? Brrrrr....

Me? I'll have a couple of glasses of wine in the evening after work.

April

I liked Dan Brown's reply to this silly question the best. Let me start off by saying that Kitchen Confidential was not a personal bio on everyone who works as a food service professional. I've worked with cooks and chefs that party and some that don't and actually have a family they take care of. I've seen flagrant drug use and sometimes been a part of it and subsequently been fired for crap like that. This is not a cute topic, but a very serious one. Frankly I, like others that have chosen to respond to this, wonder just how much experience you have actually had in professional kitchens. As for the sous chef in question...sounds like you're in his gun sites. Chances are that he knows more than you about where he's going in six months and is trying to hang you out to dry by playing on your naivitivity. My advice to you is this...it's cool to dig Anthony Bourdain. I like his fictional stuff as well as his non-fiction, but don't try to live like the people he writes about. Keep your head down and always work hard. This buisness can eat you alive if you let it. Just do your job well and don't EVER, sh*t where you eat (or cook).

Gosh, gee wiz, Ma Facon!
Maybe we should bring this a little closer to reality. We tried a prohibition once, 'member? Drugs are what they there and certain forms are accepted as a part of main stream society. If you drink wine or coffee, even in puritanical moderation, you are a user. Instructions following that statement are as follows: swing one leg over to the opposite side and dismount from your "high horse". Salute!

Are you using ?

Drug use in the hospitality industry

Ma Facon,
"Do you use", you ask? I'm unsure of what you are asking, hence my "high horse" comment. I'm under the impression that your exposure to this industry is a tad limited. That's not to negate the seriousness of the subject, but we can't all go out to eat an imagine that our food has not been prepared by ones under certain influences. For what it's worth, that is a major reason why I left off working in restaurants. I have my own buisness now and I control who works for me. I may hire people that I know will drink and come in hun g over...only if I'm certain thay can perform under those cercumstanses. When they f' up...they'er gone. This buisness chews up and spits out the weak. I'm nobody's case worker, but if they can cook some great food under pressure for me, I'll be their best friend until they screw up so bad I can't fix it. And yes, I do "use". I enjoy premium vodka on a regular basis at night, and coffee in the morning.

To make this perfectly clear, I have been in the industry for over 30 years and have seen it all, Over and over. I am not on a high horse, In fact my feet are firmly planted on the ground. By the sound of your last post I wouldn't want to be your friend, "I'll be their best friend until they screw up so bad I can't fix it. " Friends are there forever not as a part time usage then dispose of. No offense given.:chef:

Hey Ma,
I didn't mean to start a fight you about this. I once worked for a chef that didn't like me and the sous chef cussing though out the day and I told her to grow up and grow a pair. Guess what...she grew a pair one day. Your comments just seemed to have an attached agdenda and nobody here is gonna save the world through damming subtance abuse among food service professionals. It's part of our culture that we learn how to deal with. I don't enjoy having to look at and step around glue traps with dying roaches caught in them, but it's a neccessary evil. Whatever gets the job done. I recognize your "thirty years", but are you saying you never had to let someone go for crap like being high on the job that you actually liked? That's what I was saying about being their friend until I just couldn't be their chef anymore. It sucks, but I can say that outside of work, I'm still friends with all four of those guys. Anyway, I'd like us not to not be friends. Peace and bacon grease?

Problem is, every one I've known who did anything stronger than grass was usually on their way down, some knew it, some didn't. And when you go down, you usually screw up things for the kitchen and the crew, like not showing up for work, showing up stoned and useless-making more work for everybody else, getting busted, or getting caught selling stuff or trying to steal stuff at work. It takes alot of effort to get back on the straight and narrow, only have met two people who had the guts and friends to help them back on to that path. Don't hate the people who use drugs, but I hate the drugs and what the drugs do to the people, and I hate the damage it causes to my kitchen and other employees.

Well, thankfully hate is not a common word here at CT. I think it's great that everyone can post just how they feel or their opinions. Sometimes the thread gets diverted. That's ok. I love the fact that we can agree to disagree. I like the idea not to like someones opinion.
If you reread this thread you will find it repetative and there are definately two sides of this coin. Some coins are standing on edge, some are spinning.
The only thing I find bothersome about this thread is the commom thread of self pity. Yes, the business is stressful and physically demanding. I can think of an endless list of careers and jobs that equal or exceed our work. I can't believe that people can justify the use of illegal controlled substances because of our trade. You're taking advantage of the industry. One can get away with it because some of the harder jobs and careers involve some sort of physical or mental risk. Get some b---- and go get stoned while working a fishing boat, working high iron, underground,high voltage,law enforcement, firefighter, etc. Please stop using this profession as an excuse to use.

Panini, I couldn't agree with you more. If it is ilegal you are breaking the law and should be punished for it. And by the way NO FLAME WARS HERE.

My last job my co workers both dealt drugs on the side and even my chef gave me the talk about this being a high stress industry where you pretty much have to smoke pot... I personally don't I get my highs from weight training

Panini (and others), I agree with your last post.
My only thought on that subject is perhaps, since we are around the booze, drugs, etc the opportunity is greater. We do not even have to leave the building to get a cocktail (I'll have a makers mark and water please), usually do not have to pay for it, and drugs are everywere (from co workers, employees, bartenders and PATRONS). So it probably does take a bit more self controll than other professions, Furthermore, we are busting our patuties while the majority of the folks are partying and just starting to wind down at 1AM or laiter.

Blueschef,
I just don't know. I read so many posts which talk of this great passion for creating food. It's not the pay, it's the passion.This same poster will confirm that he has to work altered to produce.
I guess that's the part I don't understand. Is it a pseudo passion? Passion is a pretty strong word. I also wonder if it's just a passion to get high and produce. To me, it was always satisfy my passion by producing and then get high. Not satisfy my passion for getting high and then produce.
I was surrounded by users, young and old ,coming up. I always viewed them as lifers. Ya know a 55 yr old banquet chef who was constantly lit. I just figured he had reached where he wanted to be in life. It nevered bothered me as long as it did not get in my way to get where I was going. I consider it a negetive now because I strive to teach everyone with me to get where I'm at and replace me. I could'nt do it high so I personally don't think they can either. I have no concern with others activities unless it affect myself, family, business, or co-workers.
This is not a question of right or wrong, winning or loosing, it's how you play the game.