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Pinot and Asian

post #1 of 28
1/1/06 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
I'm directing a culinary stage for STL Food and Wine Experience (4th year)....a couple of the guest chefs are from wineries on the west coast...Neibaum-Coppola and Trinchero. Both are making Asian dishes....I was talking to one about pairing wines with Asian and he started talking about Pinot Noir which really intrigued me....whites that are slightly sweet or dry with citrus...of course beers or saki... are about the extent of my experience.
So, pairing guys what's been your red wine-Asian combos?
I'll keep you informed as the event is planned.
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post #2 of 28
1/1/06 at 2:05pm
Shroomgirl -- I would love to advise you on this. Do you know the types of dishes? Flavors, spices, hot, sweet...? It is possible to pair reds (and yes pinot) with certain dishes. It depends on the dish, and the bottle! I love puzzles like this -- bring it on! ;)
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post #3 of 28
1/1/06 at 2:44pm
Shroom, this is always an area of debate because of the up front flavors of Asian foods that more often than not conflict with many styles of wine.Fruit and spice are key elements to focus on in my opion.Classic Pinots carry a finish of Oriental spice from their oak aging. This is a point of focus. Also, like you said many whites (Riesling, Gewurtz et al) work well with spice.But if your going red, be concerned with good foward fruit and medium body.To big and the food is lost.You will call me crazy, but sit down with a thai dish, drink a big red and a white zin.(I know) you will most probably enjoy the white zin because of the residual sugar that combats the spice in a very positive way.Again, the dish is being prepared is the most important aspect. Duck & tuna,examples of foods that would work well with reds depending upon preparation think "heat" will be one of the considerations to really focus on.
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post #4 of 28
1/1/06 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
yep, I don't think you're crazy.....I've always thought fruity sweet light whites with typically Thai or Veitnamese food. I'm waiting for the chefs to get back to me on their menus. Got back Fearless Andy Husband's on Friday....he's not pairing but his menus are huge for 45 minutes, can you say loads of prep!!! I trully don't think he understands that he's only got a few butane table top burners.....same with my staff behind the screen. LOW-TECH. I also have Randall Graham talking between a couple of the demos (Bonnie Dune). Walter Scheib the White House chef from 1994-05 is a late comer....will be interesting to see what he makes!

I'll keep you up with the menus, should be interesting. Thinking about an industry only party one night.....last time I held one was when Tony Bourdain was on tour a few years ago, started at 10pm was a blast.
Happy New Years!
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post #5 of 28
1/1/06 at 5:23pm
The power keeps going out here, so my replies may be sketchy! Since you don't have the menus yet, I'll try to make a list of possibilities for you -- suprised Bonny Doon isn't pushing their "sushi bottle"
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post #6 of 28
1/1/06 at 9:56pm
Sounds like a really great line up, shroom. You constantly amaze me!! I've always wanted to meet Randall Graham. I love his wines, his style, and his attitude. Can't wait to see the menus and the final wine list. BTW, is there still a spot open to attend? :rolleyes:
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post #7 of 28
1/2/06 at 6:07am
Thread Starter 
Yep, Pete if you can get here I'll have a couple of tickets waiting at the door. Let me know if you're up for the road trip. Randall Graham is just talking for 45 minutes.

The other chefs are on a stage in front of a crowd demoing....it's in a ballroom with 150-200 wine/food vendors. There are a whole bunch of wine talks I'll look up and post.
I direct the stage .....make sure the chefs know what's going on, buy mise, collect equipment, prep to certain levels then have a beauty platter.....all working with butane burners, nominal electric and a 3 bus tub wash section. Anticipating what the demo chef will need all the while. It's been a blast. I've gotten to work with some really interesting people.
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post #8 of 28
1/2/06 at 9:19pm
Shroom -- I started to work on a list, and realized it was counter productive. I'll wait for you to post the menus and I'll shoot you my recommendations. I wish I could be there to help you out!
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post #9 of 28
1/2/06 at 9:43pm
I don't understand the confusion. My wife is Chinese and I've successfuly paired her with all kinds of wines many times!

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk :lol:

I'm sorry folks but I couldn't resist that one. Now that I've released my sophomoric impulses, allow me to redeem myself by being serious.....

I agree with Cape Chef about the fruit and the spice. I think also the saltiness vs. the sweetness of the dish is a big influence as well.

Champagne is a good choice for many Asian dishes. Its crispness and effervesence cuts the saltiness nicely.

In terms of pinot noir, my own preference would be to avoid sweet dishes and aim toward ones that are more earthy, (due to the use of mushrooms for example), or made with red meats, (and I'm including pork as a red meat, since it is.)

However, all that being said, when my wife cooks for me I never drink wine with her delicious meals. I like my Asian food very spicy and although some would disagree, strong capsaicin and wine just don't go together. But if I HAD to drink wine with extra hot Kung Pao chicken, I'd go with the aforementioned champagne or a riesling.

Mark
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post #10 of 28
1/3/06 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
MarkV,
everything goes with Champagne.....ummmmmmm bubbles
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post #11 of 28
1/3/06 at 8:31am
ROTFLMAO MarkV

Sparkling, yes! Riesling, yes! But trust me you can pair many other reds and whites too. When you post the menus, could you also give a per bottle budget? Do you want to keep it California, northern, or mainly the wines that your guests/presenters produce?
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post #12 of 28
1/4/06 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
These are 45 minute stage demonstrations not dinners. The winery-chefs are I would think promoting recipes that go with THEIR wines.
This thread is stimulous for pairing thoughts.

The whole gig is two days long. I'm solely in charge of the culinary stage....I've got nada to do with the rest and that's really good.

Randall Graham is going to be talking between demos.
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post #13 of 28
1/4/06 at 5:49am
Thread Starter 
Show is Jan 28-29th at the Chase in Central West End STL.http://www.repstl.org/events/foodandwine/index.shtml

Note the lack of mainstage recipes.....that is my agenda for this week....
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post #14 of 28
1/4/06 at 9:36am
OK, I am now officially confused.
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post #15 of 28
1/4/06 at 9:41am
I just want to help Shroom --

How about this -- give us the list of presenters (from the few you have mentioned so far I will most likely know their product) and I can suggest (if you like) the wines that would go with certain types of Asian food. OK? I guess I misunderstood.
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post #16 of 28
1/4/06 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
Sorry for the confusion.....

Really simple, let's talk about combos that are great but not normal....Pinot with Asian for example.

The show is a project I'm working on right now, if you've noticed I don't usually write in the pairring threads because I have a basic 201 working knowledge that is nothing fancy. When one of the chefs started talking about making Asian dishes at the show and pairring them (on stage) with Pinot I said, WOW! that's pretty unusual.....thus this thread.

The chefs at the show will match food with their wineries wine, that's their gig. My gig is to direct them. I'm just amazed at the combos their espousing and thought I'd share that amazement with you guys.
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post #17 of 28
1/5/06 at 12:45pm
Just a quick note --

I know some of you are not a fan of Ming Tsai, but his book Blue Ginger has "beverage tips" for his recipes, and they are quite diverse and in my opinion well paired. For example, in tune with this thread... Asian-Marinated Pork Loin with gingered sweet potatoes and five-spice apples paired with fruity, bright blended red from Coteaux du Languedoc. Asian Lacquered Poussin with Hoisin Lime Sauce paired with velvety smooth, plumy Merlot. Pomegranate-Marinated Squab with Thai Quince Chutney paired with blend of Syrah, Grenache, Clairette, and more (CHateauneuf-du-Pape).
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post #18 of 28
1/5/06 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
That's what I was going for.....Thank you for posting those combos.
if I'd put some more thought into it, Provance has spicey food so it makes sense that many of their wines would go with some Asian dishes.
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post #19 of 28
1/5/06 at 10:56pm
Thread Starter 
ok not Asian....ready? really ready?
"milk poached veal sweetbreads with salsify, fresh perigord truffles, poached snails with a truffle-sherry viniagrette"

perigord truffles go for $50oz wholesale here....3 oz in a 4 portion recipe. I'd need to have 2 batches of the dish for the stage and a display one. okey dokey....

so what wine would you serve with this? I've not seen a suggestion from the winery chef yet....but his recipe has probably 75 ingred.....I'm thinking the midwest housewife will have the majority of the foods in her kitchen.
I love my job, I love my job, I love my job, I......
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post #20 of 28
1/6/06 at 3:54am
Totally ready for the catch -- knees down, got the mit :-) Quite a rich dish.

I need to know the winery -- then I'll know what of their product to pair with it.
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post #21 of 28
1/6/06 at 4:00am
Batting first, I would suggest the 2003 Andrew Rich Willamette Valley Pinot Noir -- it can carry that dish
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post #22 of 28
1/6/06 at 4:06am
Or how about 2002 L'Aventure Paso Robles Optimus
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post #23 of 28
1/6/06 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
what about the wines would make them work?
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post #24 of 28
1/6/06 at 7:39am
Wow, My kind of food [ real food ] I think it depends on the weather, Just kidding. I would like a clean GAVI any year, I wouldn't want to mask any of the delicate flavors. Maybe the italians have been in bed with the french?????:chef:
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post #25 of 28
1/6/06 at 9:30am
Thread Starter 
strange I've never thought of truffles as delicate.....maybe I've just not experience really good ones.
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post #26 of 28
1/6/06 at 3:53pm
To me all the ingredients need to be sensed [ tasted ] and appreciated. I wouldn't mask any of the flavors with a big wine. Just accent the dish with a wisp of cleanliness. I am currently hunting down a pound of white truffs, When I receive them I would be happy to send you a sample.
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post #27 of 28
1/6/06 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
Hurray!!! Alba or Oregan?
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post #28 of 28
1/6/06 at 7:17pm
Being that I will be buying a pound for home use I am going with the Oregon, I have a great source and the season came late this year. I am waiting for the day of harvest for shipping reasons. I had some last year that were fantastic, I ate them with everything.:lips: :chef:
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