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Need help with French Onion Soup?

post #1 of 42
1/3/06 at 10:46am
Thread Starter 
I need some help with French Onion Soup?

What is the best onions to use?

What is the best cheese(s) to use?

What is the best way to flavor the bread?

If the soup will be the main course what else can I serve that will go well?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 42
1/3/06 at 11:06am
Onions.... that's a subjective answer to a broad question. I often use leeks, Spanish onions and garlic. While traditionalists flavor their beef stock with red wine, I opt to accent the sweetness of the onions with white wine rather than add a contrasting flavor.
Gruyerre is the classic cheese, while I have seen provolone or even Swiss used, as well.
For the bread, I use crusty French bread that has been left to stale a bit and then brush it with oil and rubbed with a garlic clove.
As for accompaniments... can you provide some parameters, so we could answer a little more specifically.
Hope this helps.
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post #3 of 42
1/3/06 at 11:19am
Personally i use Vidalia onions for my soup, they are very high in sugar and caramelize well. French onion soup is all in the cooking of the onions, this will take a LONG time over very low heat. Think 2 hours minimum.

As for cheese you can really use any cheese you enjoy. my favourite is with a non traditional 6 year old white cheddar.
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post #4 of 42
1/3/06 at 1:11pm
I have to agree with Jim on this one and disagree with Jeebus somewhat. I don't think you need to cook the onions nearly that long. The cellular structure isn't so great that cooking past 20-30 minutes is really going to do much more softening. Not to mention that it's going to continue cooking during the addition of stock, and cooling down, reheating etc.
I have always used beef stock and for wine I use Madeira. I use yellow and or Spanish onions and some garlic. I also add a little Thyme, salt and white pepper.
For cheese I also prefer Gruyere and an old piece of stale french bread.

Crepes and or a salad also make a nice accompaniment with the soup.
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post #5 of 42
1/3/06 at 1:33pm
Personally, I just use Spanish or yellow onions for my French Onion Soup. The key to really good French Onion soup, IMHO, is in properly caramelizing the onions. I agree with Chrose, I don't feel it is neccessary to cook the onions for 2+ hours, but it will take a good amount of time to develop the proper amount of caramelization. This is were most people fail. They either don't caramelize the onions enough, leading to a weak flavored soup (again IMO) or they try and hurry the process resulting burnt, bitter onions. I look for a nice rich brown color and usually deglaze the pan a couple of times with just a couple tablespoons of water to keep the bottom from burning. As for the wine, I have discovered that I like a 50-50 mix of sherry and red wine for my French Onion Soup. I first deglaze and reduce the sherry, then add the red wine and reduce that. My soup also contains beef broth, garlic, thyme, salt, and a hefty dose of black pepper. For the bread I like toasted French bread and topped with either Gruyere or Swiss, and lots of it.

I also make a wonderful creamy onion soup that is basically the recipe above with added cream, thickened with a roux and finshed with Gorgonzola cheese stirred into it. Not traditional, but absolutely heavenly.
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post #6 of 42
1/3/06 at 3:46pm

The best French Onion Soup

Caramelizing the onions is a critical step. You want to cook them slowly on medium low heat - so they gently caramelize. The time is very dependent on the volume, but I would count on 45 minutes or so. Stir frequently so they cook evenly. If I want to make the best soup I use homemade beef stock. Roast the bones and spend the time... It makes a great soup.

Dickie
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post #7 of 42
1/3/06 at 7:40pm
I use a mix of sweet white and red onions and garlic.
First I carmelize the onions , thyme, bay leaf, in a rondeau in olive oil.
Then when they are almost brown stir in whole butter.
then I add minced garlic and deglaze with port.
Reduce the port and add a nice beef stock.
Simmer to infuse the flavors.
I top with a crostini with gruyere and brown under a broiler.

I love this with a nice salad and some fresh fruit.
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post #8 of 42
1/4/06 at 1:54am
any vegetarian broth spins on this?

love the soup but the only problem in making @ home is beef stock/broth..
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post #9 of 42
1/4/06 at 3:03am
IMHO

IMO

Translation please???????

Mark
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post #10 of 42
1/4/06 at 5:10am
IMO=in my opinion IMHO= in my humble opinion


i use yellow onions,deglaze with some brandy, add white/red wine, beef and roasted chicken stock if I gots it, guyere or Emmenthalier...toasted bagette....and of all things dillweed.

if it's my bowl I'm layering toast and cheese then pourring then soup on and topping with cheese and throwing it in the oven until it's got a crust. Ummmm now I know what I'm going to do with that 30 lbs of onions sitting in storage, got 4# of shallots too.....hmmmmm.
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post #11 of 42
1/4/06 at 5:33am

Shroom Forgive me for this

Shroomgirl forgive me for this, I am not trying to hijack the thread, I just have always wondered something. And now more than ever I feel the need to ask.... Does this picture mean anything to you?
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post #12 of 42
1/4/06 at 5:42am
nope should it?
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post #13 of 42
1/4/06 at 10:27am
Apparently not. We now return you to the previous thread. Onion soup:lips:
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post #14 of 42
1/6/06 at 8:01pm
in response to the vegeterian spin, I have done it succesfully using veg stock. I actually found it to have a sweeter flavor.
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post #15 of 42
1/6/06 at 11:27pm
thanx for the encouragement.:bounce:

I was worried that I would loose flavor as I would not have the beefy flavor

was thinking if something like veggie stock boiled with some portabello (to get the beefy flavor) might do the trick?
pointers welcome...
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post #16 of 42
1/7/06 at 6:04am
that's exactly what I was thinking...add mushrooms to the stock.....do not add a sweet Sherry, liquor but maybe drier red wine.
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post #17 of 42
1/7/06 at 7:28am
I use the gill scrapings and stems from portabellos in veg stock.You get the flavor in the stock and can use the mushroom itself for another use.
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post #18 of 42
1/7/06 at 11:08am
20 -30 minutes is not long enough to properly caramelize onions and simmering them while it will cook them wil give you zero flavour unless the onions are cooked properly. I assume most here are fans of Mr. Kellers work yes? In his Bouchon cook book (which is not where my recipe comes from I just happened to be flipping through it) he recomends 5 hours. Nothing personal but I'll take his advice over yours.
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post #19 of 42
1/7/06 at 12:21pm
The longer the better when carmelizing the onion, Just don't burn them. And a fine stock is just as important. :chef:
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post #20 of 42
1/7/06 at 12:46pm
Nothing personal at all do what you like. Perhaps I understated the cooking time in my opinion by 15-20 minutes. Mine came from the hundreds of gallons I cooked over the years as it was a standard item on the menu where I worked for 3 years, and it always came out just fine for me (darn good in fact!). Most places don't have the luxery of taking up burner space and gas to cook onions for 5 hours which in my humble opinion is overly anal. His "advice" is his own personal method and doesn't make it any more correct than what I said or Pete, or Dickie, or Shroom or Mark said. Nothing personal here either.
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post #21 of 42
1/7/06 at 1:05pm
You know "classic" Soupe A L'Oignon Gratinee does not even brown there onions, and a blond roux is made, and no wine is used.I swear this is true.

The first restaurant I worked in in the late 70's made a very good onion soup, very similar to Chroses and Pete's. I do like to use a healthy bouquet garni during simmering.A # of dishes that I teach my students say from Alsace/Lorraine are based on onions, but none are carmelized, although all are cooked to bring out there inherent sweetness and become translucent. I find if you cook your onions to long, they break down and loose there texture.IMHO.
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post #22 of 42
1/7/06 at 1:15pm
Even better,use some dried cepes or porcini's,reconstitute them in some redwine and use them and the wine. The dry shrooms add a very deep, earthy,meaty(umami)flavor.
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post #23 of 42
1/7/06 at 1:25pm
La Cuisine de Référence: Techniques et préparations de base, fiches techniques de fabrication by Michel Maincent-Morel (Editions BPI) is the standard text book for all French culinary students (like me); it cites 'about' 30 minutes for slowly cooking your onions before adding your stock.
Escoffier says 'until golden brown'.
Shame Harold McGee isn't here any more.
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post #24 of 42
1/7/06 at 4:44pm
If you're going to make a vegetarian version, I would try using a mushroom stock very lightly thickened with a roux, since the absence of the meat proteins will sacrifice a little body to the soup itself.

Anyway.

I use spanish and vidalia onions, julienned not too thinly. I then prep my rondeaux by rendering some bacon fat and scraps from pork tenderloin with bay, thyme, and a very short sprig of rosemary. After a cook deal of the fat has been cooked out (I've also done duck for this) I remove the meat and herbs and add a good deal of butter. Then I put in my onions in batches to really get a nice color on them while retaining some bite. (If they're too soft they'll break down too much in the broth.) When the last batch is done I deglaze with a mixture of sherry and burgundy and add a combination of reduced chicken stock and veal stock. Add the other cooked onions back in. I throw in a bouquet garni (usually just bay, time, and black peppercorns) and let this simmer and reduce for a bit. Then I salt it and let it be.

For serving I like the traditional gruyere with a moderately thick cut of crusty baguette and broil it until it almost burns on top. (The peak of bubble should be just turning black.) Goes well with a sandwich of sourdough boule, thinly shaved leftover prime rib, raw horseradish and grilled tomatoes.
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post #25 of 42
1/7/06 at 4:49pm
Another note: In my opinion french onion soup is a simple comfort food that shouldn't be fretted over too much. I like Thomas Keller and all, but come on. It's like pontificating over the aromatic qualities of a bowl of cereal.

Just eat it in your underwear while watching daytime television like the rest of us jerks.
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post #26 of 42
1/7/06 at 4:50pm
[QUOTE=LogghiB]If you're going to make a vegetarian version, I would try using a mushroom stock very lightly thickened with a roux, since the absence of the meat proteins will sacrifice a little body to the soup itself.

Can't make a vegetarian anything if you use butter (I.E Roux)
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post #27 of 42
1/7/06 at 4:55pm
Really?

Why have these forums?
Comfort foods............

Coq au vin
Cassoulette
Choucroute

If your culinary expertise tells you that quality technique and discussion merits a bowl of cereal to quantify thing's so be it. But I disagree
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post #28 of 42
1/7/06 at 5:28pm
My point is that french onion soup shouldn't be treated like four star cuisine because it is not. And yeah, coq au vin should be scarfed cold from the refridgerator at 4am, drunk.

I clearly (refer to first post, right above the second post) am not above discussing technique for a good french onion soup, but just because you might be able to use a fusion reactor and a time machine to create THE PERFECTLY CARAMELIZED ONION doesn't mean you should lose sleep over a french onion soup that wasn't made from onions harvested off of the moon. It's french onion soup. It's casual. It's frosty mug of root beer and an enchilada. It's chicken salad sandwiches and PBR on the beach. And there'a a difference between saying that a superior chicken sandwich can be made from properly hung, free-range organic chicken all trussed and roasted with fresh herbs, roasted garlic, etc. and saying that a chicken salad sandwich made from hormone jacked chicken breast is some kind of crime.

I, as a customer, would much rather have a tasty cup of french onion soup for a couple bucks while reading a paper than spend whatever it costs at Bouchon and have it be turned into some kind of grand epicurial event.
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post #29 of 42
1/7/06 at 5:56pm
Amen chrose
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post #30 of 42
1/7/06 at 7:11pm
Oh, and - butter is vegetarian. It isn't vegan.
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