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Turned sugar (sucre tourne)?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Found some stuff on a 'rarely used in France' (circa 1975) sugar work technique called 'sucre tourne' (turned sugar) in one of my chef-instructor's French pastry books the other week and have been playing around with it. But, my chef had never seen it done and internet searches in English or French come up with essentially nothing.

Has anyone else heard of/played with this?

Erik
Erik

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post #2 of 24
I do believe that turned sugar is actually sugar that has been prepared for pulling and has been pulled, folded, and "turned" into a block that is ready for use or storage.
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My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
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post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 

Sucre tourne

The method as I've been using it:

(I scaled these all to be a smaller batch, in ounces)

1000 g sugar
400 g water
50-100 g glucose (I used the equivalent to 50, I think I'll use more on the next batch)


Cook to 285*, and pour onto oiled marble. Once it is just about set cut it into squares (about 1" or so).
From here, the squares can be stored for later use.

To use, warm under a lamp to get the sugar back to a pliable state, flipping so they are warmed evenly. Then, form petals by shaping with your fingers, while under the heat. (Carry on similar to making pulled sugar flowers)

Now, this can be stored in the open air (no need for plastic boxes to reduce moisture) and the book recommended that you do so. The set I did I've had out for a week and a half without any problems. (I stuck one in one of our school's moisture-heavy refridgerators last night, we'll have to see what happens)

Now, what I gather is happening is that the massaging of the sugar causes it to start to crystallize, changing the once clear pieces to opaque white over a couple of days. The book recommends coloring it by dabbing a little powdered color on your fingertips while working the pieces, allowing you to get multiple colors (as well as highlights) from the same batch of sugar. :crazy:

Any of this sound familiar?
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #4 of 24
Essentially what Chrose said. You have sugar that is prepared for pulling or blowing. Go to Pastrywiz.com recipes there.Or do a search on it here there are numerous posts on this subject here at Cheftalk...
post #5 of 24
This is not like regular pulled or poured sugar. I learn this in my apprenticship um,30? yrs.ago.
This is a method for the local bakeries to have available sugar to make roses and such on cakes. In chatenay malabry we would have these squares available and form flowers like you would with fondant. The work was not as feminine and delicate. It's soft enough to form petels and leaves but not able to get paper thin. If we needed thin we used marzipan and a lite bulb.
anyway, this is what I know of it, but of course I'm known to be wrong.
The sugar was use because of the cost and little labor.
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post #6 of 24

Anyone remember food TV

My co-workers tell me the show Sugar Rush was on last night and they heard a name I mention a lot. It's a Pastry Chef by the name of Mohan Desilva.
Does anyone remember where they said he was located? He was doing something in sugar.
I left my friend Mohan 20 yrs. ago in NYC at the Marquis and have not been able to track him down since. I'm pretty sure he did not stay with Marriott. All I need is a state but a workplace would be great!
tia
pan
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post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 

After having played a bit

I did a project at school with this and learned a couple things.....
(funny how that works out) :crazy:

After 6 weeks things still had not started to dissolve. But there is a major fault to it.
Things that I made that were 'solid' - like roses - were very strong. I had one of my fellow students toss one to me and miss...it bounced on the pavement and was mostly ok.
Things that were 'thin' - like daffodils and stems - had no strength at all. (Had to go back and redo all of the stems in isomalt).
Although....it makes great faux aquarium gravel. :lol: Can you guess what I'm currently doing for my showpieces class? hehe
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #8 of 24
Pan:

Everything I find in a Google search shows that he's the Executive Pastry Chef at the Marriott Waldman Park, in Wash. D.C.

Here's his bio from the 2006 Pastry Team Championship.

Mohan De Silva back to top
Team Captain

Mohan De Silva has ascended from his humble beginnings to become a world-renowned pastry chef. He began as an apprentice in the Inter-Continental Hotel in his native land of Sri Lanka where he trained in culinary arts and hospitality. In 1975, Mohan traveled to the western world with his family where he worked at the Southampton Princess Hotel in Bermuda.

He then traveled to Freeport, Bahamas in 1978 where he became the Pastry Chef of the Princess Hotel. Through the early 80's, Chef De Silva accepted the challenge of managing three Marriott Hotels, as pastry chef in Saudi Arabia.

Working his way back westward, he spent some time at the Homestead Hotel in Hotsprings, VA. Mohan then embarked on his most prestigious assignment: he became Executive Pastry Chef of New York City's Marriott Marquis in 1985 as part of the hotel's opening team. He remained in the Big Apple for 9 years until venturing to the City of Brotherly Love in 1994 as the Executive Pastry Chef of the Philadelphia Marriott Hotel. At present Mohan is the Executive Pastry Chef at the Wardman Park Marriott Hotel in Washington D.C.

Mohan has won over 30 medals in domestic and international competition. He won his first Culinary Olmypic medals in Frankfurt, Germany in 1992. He also received two St. Michaels' gold medals for Pastry Excellence at the New York Culinary Arts and Restaurant Show. Mohan became Marriott Team Captain in 1998 where he lead his team to two silver medals in the Hotelympia London. He was selected team captain again for the 2000 Culinary Olympics where he led his team to the gold. Mohan enjoys pastry competitions because it is his chance to learn new techniques from others in addition to showcase his skill.

See http://www.pastrychampionship.com/ar...va.htm#desilva
post #9 of 24
castiron
Thank you very much.
I can't believe I was Spelling his name wrong unless he has changed it or something. I will be on the horn today. I opened the Marquis in NY and he came on board from the Homestead. We did sugar together a few years until I split for Tex. This might have been the most pleasant person I have ever met in my life. Which is why I mention him a lot when showing the crew sugar.
A piece might crash, I'm always saying Mohan would be saying "oh my goodness" we must make another, and smile.
thank you so much castiron.
btw his family in Sri Lanka are all very artistic. I have on my wall a batik done by his brother. It's beautiful. goin away present from him.
sorry I took this off topic, I posted in the wrong place. Ya'll may proceed
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post #10 of 24
No problem, Pan. I'm grateful I had the chance to assist you, as we've all learned so much from your posts.

As to Mahon De Silva, he sounds like a great guy and I'll be rooting for him in the Pastry Championships.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 

haha

As the official starter of this post - you are officially forgiven Pan. Thanks for the little bit of background on the turned sugar :lips:
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
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post #12 of 24
Erik
Thank you for forgivness. sucre tourne brings back memories. Your breakage is what I was refering to as not as feminine as pulled. We could not get paper thin with it. My mentor would put a sheet in the window when the sun was right and they would soften. He'd then move to the pastry side and use the colored petite fore sugar to help color the flowers. I was cussed pretty regularly for not working fast enough and having to return my pan to the sun or lamp.:cry:
Now a days I think chefs are probably adding calcium carbonate to achieve this look. It's a very specific look.
Thanks for the memories and I'm planning on showing the crew this week. Did you find this in a book by Eves Thuries?
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post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Actually, yes I did. It was the French version so I had to get my wife to double check the translations for me (she is fluent - I can get by).

I really like the technique applied to Isomalt sugar. I've been using it to create clear flowers and other little things that are very pretty. The isomalt seems to have a smaller workable temperature range, so it is a little trickier to work with, but as the feeling in my hands goes away it gets easier :crazy:
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
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post #14 of 24
Pastry Championships July 7th and 8th 2006 @ JW Marriott Desert Ridge Spa and Resort in Phoenix Arizona. Also the Coupe Du Monde de la Patisserie January 21st and 22nd 2007.You can go www.pastrychampionship.com to find out more about the one in Phoenix. As far as the other one I will have to go back and look.
post #15 of 24
Erik,
We have similar situations. French is my wifes first language amongst a few others. She has a lot of family in Paris and surrounding areas. We both have family in Zurich,Italy, etc.
On my many trips to Paris I accumulated a monster collection of cookbooks, and like you say, had ,and still have help translating. It's wierd, but I'm fluent in understand French. We will chat, even over there and I will speak English and they will understand and they will speak French and we all do just fine. Sophies grandma just turned 97, we were just online looking for tickets so that she and my son can visit her again.
Erik, I've tried to style myself after Thuries. I believe he has a complete understanding of food, classical,neuvelle,bourgeois,etc. I purchase anything of his in print. I'm a little partial for I had the oportunity to meet and eat with him through family over there.
Keep experimenting
pan
I would really like to have specifics on the isomalt. I find that stuff hardens at most any temp. When you say workable temp. are your refering to the internal temp of the isomalt or the temp from having to work close to a lamp or heat source? I have no problems with direct heat from sugar, but I seem so be really sensetive to the lamps on the top of my hands. I guess I need some callouses on the tops of my hand:eek:
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post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 

Isomalt

I've only had a year of French formally, but between my wife (who says bonjour to you) and the head Pastry Chef-Instructor at my school (who is from Alsace) I do ok.

I'll see what specifics I can get for you on the isomalt. (brand, temp i'm getting it too under heat, etc.)
My 'workable temp' comments were referring to the temperature it gets to under the heat lamp, when softening of when I am working with it. My biggest problem has been it goes from too soft to too cold very quickly. It probably doesn't help that I am working in a cool room (the room we normally reserve for chocolate work).
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 

Numbers and such

Whipped out my pocket thermometer to get you some specific numbers this morning.

(The specific product I'm using in Patis'omalt made by Patisfrance.)

Warming it under a 250 watt heat lamp (no box, just silpat) I'm working between a range of 200* (almost completely remelted) to 150* (almost too solid to shape). I usually pull it out from under the lamp near the top of the range and let it cool until firm enough to hold a shape.
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
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Erik

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post #18 of 24
Cold will effect your sugar most definitely. Its difficult to get the just right conditions when working with sugar its either to cold or to humid. I am not familiar with the type of isomalt you are using I prefer granulated since the difference in price to me is really not worth the hygroscopic issues involved.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
This stuff is granulated as well.

Are there hygroscopic issues with non-granulated isomalt??
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #20 of 24
Very little. I was referring to regular granulated you purchase off the grocery store shelf. Sorry I should have been clearer. Thas the reason most people that can afford it use because of the lower hygroscopic issues involved. I have played with isomalt but I just don't see it being worth the price when you can do the same thing with regular granulated. Not saying its bad to use it its not if you can afford it use it. Just stating my preference. Make sense?
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 

Oh, that's what you meant!!

hehe
Got it.

I think the difference depends on what you plan to use it for, and how long you want it to live.

I would not want to pour the sides of the mock aquarium showpiece I am working on with regular sugar...it's too big for any of the sugar boxes we have at school, and I don't want to worry about it melting/collapsing on me!
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #22 of 24
Eril,
Are you using Rock?
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post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
For some reason, rock is one thing I have not been using.

I have a pastillage base brushed with couverture. Gravel is made out of turned sugar I started mashed to start recrystalizing and broke into small pebbles (it looks great).
I 3 have little aquarium 'toys', a pastillage sign (No Swimming), and a mermaid & sunken ship made of plastic chocolate. I have one pulled isomalt plant and a plastic chocolate fish so far.
Working on trying to get poured isomalt 'glass', but having to rework my original idea a bit due to structural issues.
Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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Erik

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital dying of nothing"
-Redd Foxx
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post #24 of 24

Turned sugar, what it actually is.

Turned sugar is made from regular sugar and will not work as well with isomalt. The preparation is the same but final stages are completely different. Start by preparing your sugar, portion it then allow it to cool in block shapes. It is not pulled in the sense of pulled sugar but rather folded onto itself if only to soften it and keep it malleable, the point is to avoid folding air into the sugar. When you are ready to start shaping it under a heat lamp dip your fingers into some fondant and start to shape it. The fondant will start to make the sugar crystalize and give the sugar a matte look. That is why it will not work well with isomalt. You will have to work quickly to avoid the sugar from turning into "sand", frequent "turning" will help prevent this (hence the name). You should work with a little sugar at a time to prevent the whole batch from crystalizing. Anyone having a pulled sugar piece for a longer time will notice the sugar will start to crystalize on its own and get a waxy dull finish this is the look of turned sugar. Turned sugar is a little more resistant to humidity than pulled sugar as there are no microscopic air bubbles for the humidity to soak into. It is not suited for stems and the like because of its crystalline properties thinner pieces will tend to shear along the edges of the sugar crystals.
For a detailed explanation and procedure refer to the French professional pastry series: Petit fours, chocolate,frozen desserts and sugar work by Roland Bilheux and Alain Escoffier. Published by John Wiley and sons, New York. Thank you for your consideration in these matters, I remain. Ratbastard.
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