ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Pairing Food and Wine › Returning a bad bottle of wine
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Returning a bad bottle of wine

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
There's a long thread in another forum about returning food to the kitchen. What about sending wine back? I've been on both sides of this situation many times. It's a great process to train your waitstaff on, since a green crew and manager can really make the restaurant look bad.

Case in point Stregganonna in Chicago is an Italian/New World Cuisine (whatever that means) restaurant in a nice neighborhood with an up-and-coming restaurant row. The restaurant is owned by a successful group with several other units. I'm starting a casual dinner with my best friend, and I know that we'll likely order two bottles of wine. I order an inexpensive (at the time) Spanish red - Conde de Valdemar Crianza.

The young lady had some training in wine service, but she was nervous even with a cheap bottle. We made conversation to put her at ease. She poured the taste for my friend, who thought the wine was corked. He asked the server to pour a taste for me, and indeed the wine was VERY corked. The server put the bottle down on the table, and ran off to get the manager. She came back in ten minutes and explained that the manager, "who knows a lot about wine," said that he "didn't want her to open another bottle of the same wine, because we probably wouldn't like that either." We should pick something else.

I asked the server to send the manager over, because like him, I too know something about Spanish wines, in particular this wine, and this was not an issue of liking or not liking the wine. The bottle was clearly corked. AND, no matter what the manager thought was going to happen, we weren't going to drink this bottle, so she could take it away.

The manager refused to come to the table, but I saw him taste the wine at the bar across the restaturant. He made an iccky face, and the server served us another bottle and a second of the same wine that were just fine.
post #2 of 14
David, Interesting post.
Most restaurants that have a decent cellar or someone who is in charge of the beverage end of the operation is usually pretty understanding of the problems with "corked"wines.I think sometime the restaurant staff may feel that the average customer doe's not really know mush about wine.But on the contrary I think the dining public is more educated then ever before when it comes to food and wine. A corked wine after being sniffed and tasted by the restaurants "wine guru"should be removed without any problem "if in fact it is corked"
The same wine and vintage should be offered to the guest...Rarely do you have more then one corked bottle to a case. albeit it has happened.with the cost of even entry level wines at restaurants consumers should comfortable with sending back a bottle of wine.
If it a wine that is not to their liking...it is important that the costumer make the server aware of his/her preference of styles.because on the other hand wines are sent back many times because it was not what the consumer thought it was.
cc
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I'd even go on to say that if a bottle is refused, remove it from the table immediately. The wine guru can taste and determine whether or not the wine can be offered by the glass to other guests, or used as a tasting opportunity for the staff, or simply returned to the vendor for credit. I would never want to force someone to drink a wine they're not enjoying, even if it is technically not corked. In that event, work with the guest to find a wine that suits their palate.

post #4 of 14
David, you are right on the money!
It is more important to hopefully make a customer a frequent guest of your establishment then to "challenge" their knowledge of wine and there for making for an uncomfortable dining expereance.and pretty much guarantee they will not return
cc
post #5 of 14
Dick that would drive me nuts.I hate when a server touches my glass never mind by the bowl.And holding the label out for you to see is something that many servers do.It's kind of a confirmation on the wine you chose Albeit a little unnessesary.I am a chef and do not spend a lot of time in the FOH and our F&B director is Swiss and went through the whole Swiss hotel scene etc. So he is on top of wine service.But as being a lover of the grape I would ask the server for a new glass and have him/her place it by the stem at your setting and pour it there.There really is no need for them to be touching your glass.Those darn touchy-feely servers
cc
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
To your questions, Dick, no way should the server pick up your glass to pour - but without proper server training? When I steward a bottle of wine, I do hold the bottle so that the person who chose the wine can take another look at the label, and I don't really know why. I have had people tell me, no I am not making this up, "we ordered Zinfandel - this wine is RED" and "isn't a chianti bottle supposed to be in wicker?"

It's really a heart-breaker when someone starts sending back serious wines. I was a captain years ago at a four-star restaurant here in Chicago. We had just opened, and our cellar was still in the "growing" phase. A guest sent back a three old Bordeaux, until finally the owner talked him into the third. I think he was just playing big shooter for the night and wanted the attention. The wines were all showing well.
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
I meant to respond to your last post sooner, Dick. Believe me, if these difficult, ignorant people were the majority, I would have gotten out of the business years ago!

Despite what you might hear, 95% percent of restaurant guests are a pleasure to serve.
post #8 of 14
Have just read your Wine return Daivid,

Well done,
a short story,
as a student doing my first 'waitering' .
Man OK-d the wine, then pour for wife,
who took a big sip, then complained to husband that wine was not good,
fortunately, manager came to rescue.

Better than being served a more expensive wine in a new Fish Restaurant in South AFrica,
ordered from an obviously temporary wine list.
On checking the open bottle, asked to see the wine list again, after a long long wait, another computer printed wine list was brought over,
much drama and performances by all,
not a recommended incident for repeating.

:rolleyes:
post #9 of 14
Are wine corks supposed to be sniffed; or are they scrutinized for tartrate crystals? The latter indicates a wine that may well need more ageing; that's been my experience.

Some bottles of the same lot have been known to go bad. "Durability" can be a function of the bottler. The same wine bottled by different companies from different countries can demonstrate different flavors and variations to ageing. :eek:

[ April 16, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]
post #10 of 14
My experience with tartrate crystals is that they can indicate a "harsh", young wine that may mellow with age. Some wines heavy with tartrate crystals were allowed to age an extra 8-10 years. After that, they tasted smooth and good. I have nothing to say about letting the crystals "redissolve".

I also examine the cork to see if it's dry or moist. However, most consumers drink their wine young so the cork doesn't have the time to fully moisten. A dry cork can indicate either a young wine or one whose cork is so dry that it shrank and allowed the product to possibly oxidize. It happens seldom, though.

[ April 16, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
I was told once that tartrate crystals on the cork can indicate that the bottle has been through a wide temperature range - and could have been damaged. Playing with the cork is sort of a superfluous exercise, when the wine is right there ready to be tasted. I've seen flawless corks come out of the most oxidized, undrinkable wine; and I've seen corks with years of seepage evidence come out of old Bordeaux and Barabarescos that were beautiful, vibrant wines. Go figure.

When I captained, I would examine the cork as a part of my stewarding. I never presented the cork to the guest.
post #12 of 14
Dear Britcook:

That was a great explenation of the 'wine problem". I have experienced the same with olive oil. When I receive a shipment of olive oil from a producer I always taste and analyze three different bottles. I have found that in a shipment of let's say 700 bottles there will be at least five bottles that do not taste right.

It was embarassing but in my olive oil tasting this month with Cape Chef at the Mystic Cooking School, my favorite olive oil bottle that I had brought with me had a similar problem. The olive oil was still good enough to stand out from the rest but to me, who knew what it should really taste like, it tasted inferior to its true quality. Unfortunately, it would not have been appropriate to bring previously opened bottles to the School.

Coming back to wine, I have to say that when I order wine at a restaurant I always ask the waiter to taste it first and give me his opinion. This little test tells me a lot about the restaurant.
post #13 of 14
My younger brother has worked as maitre d' or manager in a number of upscale New YOrk City area restaurants. In one place, the problem with people ordering and returning expensive wines to impress thier guests became so acute that wines above a certain price were served only with the approval of the manager.

Is this a New YOrk problem or has everyone run into it?
post #14 of 14
People eat with there eyes,so I understand while some may be concerned about seeing tartaric crystel deposits on there cork. But..you need not worry.Tartrates do not at all effect the flavor of wine,and if a wine does not go through a cold stabilization you might find these crytsels.tartaric acid is one of three acids found in wine,malic,citric and tartaric.All intrinsic of the grape and tartaric being the predominant acid.I also have sent back wines that have been corked,and in every case there was not a problem from managment.Also to another theory that was posted on tartaric acid forming from holding tempatures,is not correct.the over exposure to heat and coolness and back and forth will basiclly destroy the nouances of the wine and will dry them out...I have had many older fine wines with a low shoulder ullage that where outstanding,But you don't want to come across a young wine with ullage,this can mean a faulty cork. I think as proffessinals we must take the lead to educate the public on wine.We should not offer a fine wine selection in a restaurant if we do not fully understand what we are selling.The best part of learning in this areana is we get to taste :)
cc
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Pairing Food and Wine
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Pairing Food and Wine › Returning a bad bottle of wine