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post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Basic Stocks and Sauces

Demi - Glace

Ingredients (volume 1 liter)

veal bones 0.900 kg (cut into walnut size)
calves feet 0.100 kg (cut into walnut size)
spice sachet (white pepper corn, bay leave, clove)
oil 0.020 lt
all purpose flour 0.040 kg
flavoring vegetables (onions, carrots, knob celery, some leek) 10% of bone weight
tomato paste (puree) 0.020 kg
dry white wine 0.100 lt (also red wine)
brown veal stock 2.500 lt

1. heat oil in roasting pan add bones and clave feet brown very well (in oven or on stove)
2. add flavoring vegetables brown and add leek last
3. remove excess fat
4. add tomato paste and roast briefly
5. Dust with flour
6. add wine deglace and reduce
7. add part of the brown veal stock and reduce
8. add remaining veal stock and simmer for about 3 to 4 hours
9. add spice sachet about 30 minutes before sauce is cooked
10. strain and cool down

note: you could also make a roux and add it at the end, instead of dusting with flour.

Who does it different? and lets discuss the Why
post #2 of 10
It is beyond my comprehension why anyone still uses flour in a veal sauce. please stop teaching people this, it isn't 1964 anymore. nice clean straight reductions only please.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

post #3 of 10
Hey, each to his own. I haven't got an a'la care business, but a corporte catering one, so my demi is designed for my kitchen.

If we take Chef Kaiser's ingredients, but different techniques for "my" demi.

Veal bones, roast them until they they start to give off fat. Blanch the split calves foot, and roast with the bones. If you can't get calves feet, turkey or chicken wingtips work well too. Since my flat-top is right next to the oven, I dump the whole pan right on the flat-top, and let the bones drain off, scrape the fat down into the glory-hole, put the bones back in the oven and repeat as necessary until the bones have a light gold colour. For me this is important, My oven does double and triple duty for bread and pastries, and I don't like it dirty, greasy, and smelling like burnt oil.

Onions in first. When they start to take the slightest bit of colour, the rest of the mire poix in. Still tip off the fat from the pan as necesarry. Spread the tomato paste over the bones with the back of a spoon so it can roast quickly. Keep a close eye on this, shouldn't take more than ten minutes. In the meantime toss the bones around a little so the paste doesn't burn. Take the pan out, if you have wine, great, if not use cold remouillage, deglaze the pan, using a wooden spoon, please!

My stock pot will only take 25 qts (liters) so I usally roast 1/2 case of bones at a time. Roasted bones/mirpoix/ deglacage go in, along with COLD REMOUILLAGE from the last batch. Yeah yeah, scream all you want, still a good remy is better than water. Bring to a quick boil, then turn down to a simmer, skim/degrease, then add in bay (fresh, I've got a shrub at home) 1 clove, black peppercorns. Skim and degrease occasionally at a bare simmer for the next 6 hours. Drop in fresh thyme and a sprig of rosemary, simmer another hour, then strain into a large pot. Fill the bones up with fresh cold water and simmer for remy overnight, cool down the fond brun in the sink, and refrig over night.

Next day scrape off any fat on the upper surface of the refrigerated fond, and simmer down 1/4. Easy enough, you'll see the rings down the side of the pot.
For a good a'la cart menu you'd just reduce down so it would coat the back of a spoon, and if your customers pay $30.00 for an entree, why not? But for my kitchen I'll stop at 1/4 reduction and thicken with arrow root, I moisten the arrow root with..yeah, yeah, don't scream, I use a good Balsamic. I find the vinegar "wakens" up the demi.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #4 of 10
Both recipes are impressive.Could you do the same, say with beef bones? Or chicken bones? Chef Kaiser you added wine for the deglace, are you using a white wine? I got this off Master Cook Version 9.

* Exported from MasterCook *

Espagnole Sauce

Recipe By :The American Culinary Federation
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Sauce

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3 fluid ounces Vegetable oil
1 pound Mirepoix -- medium dice
2 fluid ounces Tomato paste
6 quarts Brown Veal Stock -- hot
12 ounces Brown Roux
1 each Sachet d'épices

Sauté the onions in the oil until they take on a brown color. Add the remainder of the mirepoix and continue to brown.

Add the tomato paste and cook for several minutes until it turns a rusty brown.

Add the stock and bring to a simmer.

Whip the roux into the stock. Return to a simmer and add the sachet. Simmer for about 1 hour, skimming the surface as necessary. Strain through a double thickness of rinsed cheesecloth. The sauce is ready to use now, or it may be cooled and stored for later use.

"Culinary Fundamentals"
"Prentice Hall"
"1 gallon"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 2865 Calories; 249g Fat (75.0% calories from fat); 22g Protein; 164g Carbohydrate; 43g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 3143mg Sodium. Exchanges: 32 1/2 Vegetable; 49 Fat.

Nutr. Assoc. : 0 20023 0 0 0 0

It does mention the roux like Chef Kaiser suggested making. I like the idea of the mire poix, onions,celery, and carrots. What about trinity, onions,celery and peppers? Could that be used as well? And someone explain to me what espagnole means, I am assuming it means stock....or sauce. The recipe for demi glace was separate and suggested adding the veal stock(brown) with the above recipe.
post #5 of 10
The difference between beef bones and veal bones is like the difference between onions and shallots. Both similar, but the shallots have a finer, somehow better flavour. Beef is good, but somehow heavier and "coarser", but if you're making gravy, it's good, or an espagnole, both of which require a heavy thickener it's O.K. You'll never get the amount of flavour you need from a good demi from chicken bones, well, maybe if you use 2 or 3 times the amount required for veal, but that's getting a bit ridiculous.

In the end, it all comes down to how your kitchen is set up, what your customers will pay, and how much effort you want to put in.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 

in tradition you actually use white wine, as the acidity will interact with the proteins of the veal bones. But today we commonly use an acid redwine too.

as foodpump said veal bones are the best base for a brown stock (not thikened) and the demi - glace thikened. As they are loaded with proteins, which are water soluble and are therefore washed out into the stock. therefore when you reduce the stock it will help to naturally thiken. further the proteins surface of the bones are the once which will color and therefore give the color and taste. That effect you dont really have with beef bones as the animals are older. That is the reason why for a beef stock, we use beef bones, as we dont want to have this gelatinizing effect, when using it to make a consomme or cooking of other ingredients

the espagnol was actually used before in the times of Escoffier, but is still a possible to be used.

In the selection of the vegetables, you should be carefull as we dont want one to over power the base stock or sauce. You always can make later a sauce with the base of your peppers by using the demiglace.
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 

hi, fun shall it be to be a chef


that is good if you can afford to make a reduction of your unthiken Brown veal stock to the point of the so called glace de viande or meat glaze.

but well quite costly as mentioned by foodpump.

post #8 of 10
Geez Jeebus,

A little hard on Chef Kaiser, I think. I believe Chef Kaiser
is from a backround similar to mine. We need 20 gallons of
Veal Demi or "lightly" thickened concentrated veal stock. If
you thicken with care and finesse you will have a wonderful
product. For me it is not the cost of a few pigs feet and
a few cases of bones, its the time, labor, and space being
used. The kettle, the ovens, etc. nothing is written in stone.
The art is in how you approach different limitations of space,
time, and the volume of business. I have enjoyed Chef Kaiser's
posts and off hand would enjoy working with him. He seems
classic old school, but, flexible and progressive as well.
Listen and watch before speaking is what an old guy named
Gerard Vullien used to say to me.
post #9 of 10
I was thinking the same thing Stephen.
"Laissez Le Bon Temps Roule"
"Laissez Le Bon Temps Roule"
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your supporting words, but trust some of the answers I actually enjoy and share them with my apprentices, for them to have a good laugh too and understand and practice the basics even better.

After 30 years, trust you have seen many right and wrong and also new ideas, which are excellent and to support or just the once for the garbage as they never survived anyway.

However when it comes to basics, like stocks and mother sauces, which are basic recipes using clean and simple ingredients you combine to get the strength out form the main ingredient – the bone first and its natural ability. Why should I challenge that in 2006, after Escoffier (1847 - 1935) perfected it already for us? What you make out of the base, just to quote again adding soy sauce, fine do it and give the sauce a name, as historically all deviations of mother sauces were given a name.

I just would like to share with the chef, who said, that it is outdated to use flour today when making a demi glace. I can share with him, in my time of fine dining cooking, when people still had money, when the sauce was called St – Amour, I could use the wine for deglazing before adding the brown veal glace. Well many may think now what wine is that.

I am a world open individual, but firmly recommend to young chefs and hobby chefs, before you Rock and Roll - learn basic dancing first. Well try to comprehend the Why in cooking first with the right books before trying to cook a Fillet Wellington with out a thermometer today.

Well having said that, maybe in future I will Post some cooking method questions, which seem not to be actual in this forum or were maybe discussed before. But they are the absolute base to cook right and trust that is what I hammer into the heads of my Asian apprentices, the 14 basic cooking methods and product knowledge on top of that.


Chef Kaiser
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