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hi fun to be chef or a headache  

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
Hi to All,

About cooking methods!

But before my question for sure a true story!

Some years ago here in Asia, there was this British Chef, who landed in town and was talking about all his achievement and especially in the first place he worked in, he put on one wall all the medals he won in culinary competitions in England.

Well soon he was gone and he knocked at my door, so I asked him in the interview, how many cooking methods do we know? He answered 8, I told him, no, there are 14.

Well the question and to start this thread how many do we have really, or we know, as we just practice those we know?

Regards

Chef Kaiser

sorry for my bad english, lucky my consomme does not complains about it, but happy to be clear.
post #2 of 49
Like you, Chef Kaiser, I was "brainwashed" with the 14 Grundzuberitungsarten ( methods of cooking) in school. I try to use as many of them in my repetoire, but some, like poele, aren't in use very much. I get strange looks when I tell other cooks that there are two methods of poaching: With movement (ie hollandaise) or without (ie creme caramel), that there are two methods of grilling: on a spit and on the metal grid, and that baking nd roasting are not the same.

One thing I will not tolerate, and have fired several cooks point blank for is not properly sauting. How many times have I seen this? Take the pan, throw the meat into it, put it on the stove, turn on the heat, then maybe as an afterthought, dribble a little oil on it as it sputters in it's own juice....

It's funny, a good European cook with know and practice the proper methods, and relies on technique of cooking methods for good results whereas an Asian one will use his/her excellent command and knowledge of spices and spice/herb combinations, but throw the meat into a pot with the carefully prepared spices on top! (ie Beef rendang, Curry Ayam...)
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #3 of 49
Thread Starter 

hi, fun shall it be to be a chef

hi foodpump,

agree have seen it too. When it comes to the Asian dishes, i do infuse very much the European cooking methods and it works perfectly. Well the fact in Asia is that they do not have too many professional culinary schools. However i must say, it changed a lot over the last 15 years.

regards
post #4 of 49
Thread Starter 

Traditional Cooking Methods

As a refresher and to think about.

1. Blanching
- In water (starting cold water / starting hot, boiling water)
- In oil

2. Poaching
- In shallow stock
- In floating stock
- In water bath with stirring
- In water bath without stirring

3. Boiling / Simmering
4. Deep fat frying
5. Sauteing
6. Grilling / Broiling
7. Gratinating / au gratin
8. Baking
9. Roasting
10. Butter Roasting
11. Braising
12. Glazing
13. Steaming
14. Stewing


regards
post #5 of 49
Where would "smoking" fit in this profile? I mean such as smoked salmon, or BBQ cooking? Just a newbie trying to learn.
regards :smiles:
post #6 of 49
Great flavour enhancer, but is not a cooking technique. Smoking was origianlly used to preserve foods, in combination with some kind of a brining.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #7 of 49
Maybe there is a teaching technique being used here that I'm just not sharp enough to grasp, but this just looks to me like, at best, a game of gotcha.
just an old guy learning to live off his own cooking
just an old guy learning to live off his own cooking
post #8 of 49
"Smoking" fits in out back after you've busted your a*s all night on the line.
post #9 of 49
Thread Starter 

Preservation Methods

hi, back from an Easter break.

Obviously there is a thin line when refering to the hot smoking technique, as you basically cook the fish too. However like when you sun dry fish, so also smoking are classified as preservation methods.

regards
post #10 of 49
I think part of the reference was to barbecue - low heat with hardwood smoke, a cooking technique, not a preservative. Whether that means there should be 15 rather than 14 has more to do with language than cooking, imho.

cheers
The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
post #11 of 49
Thread Starter 

Bbq

hi,

Well if you refer to BBQ, i rather would say that is grilling or spit roasting method. Smoking is done in a enclosed chamber, wherein the heat of the smoke is essential for cold or hot smoking and not the direct heat source producing the smoke. Did you ever hear that like a whole pork loin is only smoked and it iwould be cooked. I believe impossible as first you have to preserve it in a brine and then you can smoke it. Smoking as Foodpump wrote is mainly a flavor enhancer today but not a cooking method. As to mentioned, there are more traditional smoked dishes, which first are cured and thereafter are smoked.

You can try it out, just put some wood chips or saw dust into a steamer, place the perforated insert of the steamer at least 15 centimeter / 6 inches above. Place your fish on top of the insert, cover it airtied and smoke your fish for just a few minutes. Not too long. The fish will still be raw inside and you finish it off in the oven, or just pan - fry it with little oil.

Well the technique i explain here we had to discover way back out here in the bush, as we did not have the money to buy an expensive smoking machine but food trend demanded it.

But it works and is the proof that smoking is not a cooking methhod, as you still have to cook it.

Therefore smoking is not a cooking method, as if you would use it as one, the taste of the wood chips or saw dust would be so over powering. Just go to Europe and look at old traditional farm houses, the smoking chamber often was fare away from the oven were the Madam cooked for the family with wood fire, as the distance mattered about hot or cold smoking.

Well i hope just to share some points here and not to offend.

regards

Kaiser
post #12 of 49
What is the difference between baking & roasting?

thanks
The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
post #13 of 49
Thread Starter 

Baking and Roasting

hi,

Booth cooking methods are done in the oven (Dry Heat). Whereas baking is always done by wrapping the product like meat (beef wellington / ham / fish) etc. in a dough (puff pastry, sour etc.) or fish in a salt crust. Whereas roasting you simply expose the product to the heat of the oven and after roasting, you can make a roasting juice (jus) form the pan drippings, which is not possible when baking.

regards
post #14 of 49
Chef Kaiser clearly is unfamiliar with the wonders of real pit barbecue and the process of smoking meats "low and slow" until tender, delicious and falling off the bone. It's an indirect heat method where meat is stationed over a drip pan which is next to a pile of slow burning natural wood coals onto which damp smoke chips are added. Heat within the smoking vessel should never rise above 250 degrees F. Depending on the cut of meat, it generally takes about 6-10 hours of cooking with this method to thoroughly cook the meat.
Of course, quick cold smoking can be used as a flavor profile for a dish, and as a curing method. Barbecue something very different.
This is a method of cooking originally developed by native americans indigenous to the Gulf and Caribbean basin. It's first name was "barbacoa" changing to barbecue with the introduction of europeans.
Barbecue, though often confused with it, is never the same as grilling.
Another cooking method to include on your list might be tagine and clay pot cooking.

www.foodandphoto.com

Liquored up and laquered down,
She's got the biggest hair in town!

www.foodandphoto.com

Liquored up and laquered down,
She's got the biggest hair in town!

post #15 of 49
Thread Starter 

smoking

hi,

you refer with this method to high heat smoking, 70 - 120 degrees celsious. This technique is more than 400 years old and commonly used for sausages or smaller pieces of meat. The objective may have been even for the native Americans to preserve the meat for winter - well I just wonder.

How old is the terminology BBQ actually, maybe somebody knows that.

regards
post #16 of 49
Cooking with liquid nitrogen
post #17 of 49
Isnt that more of a chemical reaction then a cooking method i thought it was, cause cooking methods use some form of heat to "cook" the product but liquid nitrogen isnt a heat source. but i have been wrong before.
Lets cook the night away!
Lets cook the night away!
post #18 of 49
What's the difference between Roasting and Butter roasting?

What is glazing?
What's the difference between stewing and simmering?

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

post #19 of 49
Roasting: Method that uses dry heat, whether an open flame or oven.
Product can be basted with butter, lard or oil.

Butter roasting: Product is basted on the surface with butter to reduce the loss of moisture by evaporation.

Stewing: Cooking food ingredients in a liquid, typically by simmering, and served without being drained. The ingredients of a stew may be cut into larger pieces than a those of a soup; a stew may have thicker liquid than a soup, and more liquid than a casserole.

Simmering: Cooking technique in which foods are cooked in hot liquids kept at or just barely below the boiling point of water.
post #20 of 49
Where does ceviche fit in all this? One is "cooking" the seafood in the acidic juice.
post #21 of 49
I'd say it's another chemical reaction with the acidic fruit.
It's a wonderful thing to be spoiled in the way of food.
It's a wonderful thing to be spoiled in the way of food.
post #22 of 49
I'd say it's more of a pickling.
post #23 of 49
What you have written there is just plain wrong!

Baking is dry. That is, the product is cooked in an oven with no added liquid.

Roasting is wet. That is, the product is cooked in an oven with a liquid usually a lipid (fat or oil) added. It is also often brushed with the said fat or oil from time to time during the cooking to keep it "wet".

Or, are you going to tell me and every one else that a cake is wrapped in puff pastry?

I am not even going to comment on your list of 14. It was not written by someone that knows what they are doing. I would go as far as to suggest it might be something you just made-up.

This has got to be the funniest and most incorrect thread I have seen so far...but I am new here. :lol::lol:
post #24 of 49
Roasting uses Dry Heat. This is a classification of cooking methods.

He is refering to baking meat surrounded by pastry.

post #25 of 49
I tried to 'quote' but was rejected...My below is in reply to epicous.

................................................

No...He does NOT!

He specifically states that (in his opinion) the difference between baking and roasting is that bake means wrapped and roast means exposed.

The meat to which you refer is but a mere example given by him.

I did not at any time state that roasting is not a cooking method! However, you are clearly confused...

Of course roasting uses a "dry heat" just like baking does! But I am not asking you, I am telling you...baking is "dry" and roasting is "wet" !!! The roasting usually uses a lipid based liquid such as fat or oil to keep it wet during the cooking. However, it can also use a water based liquid such as stock or gravy, for example a 'pot roast'.

I dare say that if you were to pot roast your beef wellington it would come out rather soggy...But with thoughtfull care one could "pot bake" a wellington.

But at the end of the day, I just cannot get over the fact that "he" actually lists "au gratin" as a cooking method!!!

This continues as the most incorrect and funniest thread so far...But I am new here and expect to find funnier ones...:lol::lol::lol:
post #26 of 49
Gee, there's an easy question! Discussion of the word barbecue and various variations and their origins could easily be a lenghty thread on its own.

This whole topic on cooking method definitions could end up as an endless argument about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and how do you define dance, and are those regular angels or African angels? [ lame Monty Python reference ] .

Why are there 5 mother sauces when 3 of them are the same, adding flavored liquid to a flour based roux? Why aren't pan reductions called sauce? Why is 'au gratin' a seperate cooking method, does it use a different type of heat source? If I brush some butter on the tops of my biscuits, are they still baked, or does the fat addition mean they are roasted?

I'll be quiet for now.

mjb.
Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
post #27 of 49
:lol::lol::lol:

Yes your so called "fat addition" would make them roasted...But why on Earth would you be brushing butter on your biscuits mid-cook?????

:lol::lol::lol:

Unless of course, you want a roasted biscuit!

Au gratin is not a cooking method...but I am waiting for the OP to respond! It's a bit like saying saute is a cooking method, which he also has on his list of 14 !!!...But then again he also has deep frying, so he seems to know that frying is a method, but is confused when it comes to deep frying and shallow frying...Gawd daaarm, I am now confused!!!

He knows nothing...and if you listen to him then you are a fool!

:lol::lol::lol:

Funny, funny, funny !!
post #28 of 49
Enlighten us then with what YOU know, rather than putting down another poster for their response.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

post #29 of 49
Thread Starter 

Gratinating

Gratinating as per say is not 100% a cooking method but can be a combination of baking / browning or a finishing method. However if you study the ingredients particularly used to gratinate (cheese, sauce mornay, sauce hollandaise, cream and egg yolk etc.), it is a unique way to prepare and finish a dish and therefore since decades in Europe is considered a method on its own. Even the equipment, the Salamander was particularely created for said method. thank you
post #30 of 49
For me to "enlighten" you, you first need to be "teachable". Are you teachable or are you actually young enough to already know everything?

I do not believe that I have "put down" any other poster. Even if my postings have been read that way, I would like to think that any person that feels put down would say so for them selves.

You have also posted in a questioning manner of the OP. Does that mean that you are also putting down another member?

What exactly do you want me to enlighten you with? I have already explained the difference between bake and roast, which I mentioned...Oh, hang on, is it au gratin?

OK...The OP (chef kaiser) has not only included au gratin on his list of 14 cooking methods he has implied that it is the same or similar to gratinating.

Surely you do not think that gratinating and au gratin are cooking methods do you? Surely you do not think that they are the same thing or similar do you?

Au gratin: Is to serve food with a bechamel sauce (white sauce). Sometimes, in fact often, the bechamel has cheese added to make it a cheese sauce. Some chefs would correctly argue that cheese must be added to make it au gratin. It is usually used with vegetables for example 'cauliflower au gratin'. Can also be served with chicken or fish.

Gratinating: Is a way of finishing food by browning (or colouring) in an oven. However, it can also be achieved under a salamander. Almost any food can be browned by gratinating however, the term "gratinating" usually refers to pasta. A mix of bread crumbs and finely grated cheese is sprinkled over the pasta and then it is browned or "gratinated" in an oven or under a salamander.

Clearly, gratinating and au gratin are NOT anything like each other. Let alone the fact that neither are cooking methods .

Chef Kaiser started this thread knowing full well that it would attract comments. He started this thread stating his information to be factual. Clearly he is not mistaken, has not made a "typo", has not misquoted a text book or anything thing else that might explain all this...Almost everything he types is just plain and simple wrong. I am not putting him down, I am simply responding to his thread.

:):)
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