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Rachel Ray Bashing Moratorium - Page 2

post #31 of 94
Emeril owns:

Emerils Fish House
Emerils Orlando (Tchop Chop)
Emerils NOLA
Emerils Delmonicos (Las Vegas)
I know theres more but cannot think of them right now. I would say he holds his own pretty good...

Regards Cakerookie...
post #32 of 94
Emeril got lucky in terms of being in the right place at the right time as far as the TVFN goes. Without that exposure it's somewhat (mind you I say "somewhat") unlikely that he would have so many restaurants and be this successful. That being said, if you were to be aware of his bio you would find that he and I, (and most of you) shared similar career paths. Where we split off is that he went to Brennens one of the most high profile restaurants in the country and I had a heart attack in the kitchen (I don't know what happened to the rest of you :D. Some of us get lucky, some don't. But along with his luck Emeril absolutely paid his dues! He sweated and busted his ***** like we all do/did off to be in a position to take advantage of the luck that came his way. 99% of good luck is being prepared to accept it and putting yourself in a position for it to show up, and then grabbing it when it hits you in the face.
It's easy to be jealous of his success, but as an example if you could go back in time and replace Emeril at Brennens with Cape Chef, or Kuan, or Suzanne for example it might be them you were getting sick of and complaining about on the TVFN.
Now Sandra Lee is a whole different kettle o' fish!:rolleyes:

By the way anyone who went to NECI has the exact same education as Alton Brown.
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
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My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
post #33 of 94
Well said Ch!

Regards Cakerookie...
post #34 of 94
well said chrose. i know that my dreams were put on hold once i had children. i found that being with them was way more important than busting my butt in a commercial kitchen. i felt that if i was going to devote all my time and energy to something it was going to be to them. i just couldn't be super-mom(or super-parent) and do both to the best of my abilities. and then came the health issues..... getting older isn't as fun as it appears to be.:lol:
who knows where i'd be if i had taken the other road.....
but i have no regrets.
kat
post #35 of 94
I know it's off topic, but thanks for that post Kat. You reminded me of something I had forgotten. I even made the post earlier in a Chef Kaiser thread about making the decision that being there for my kid was more important than my own personal career. Lately I have been bemoaning my own situation because of where I am in terms of a career as opposed to my peers. I guess now that my son is 14 I was forgetting why I did what I did in the first place. But now that you remind me I can sit back and look at my son and think what an incredible kid he is and I was there for every minute of it. We forget the important things, and how things that are important seem to change as we get older. But I think once we get past these teen obstacles I will be able to sit back. look at his successes in life and realize I may not have a Mercedes, but I raised one **** fineboy! (With a little help from his Mom ;) :look: and after all isn't that really what life is all about? Emeril may have a ton of money, but at what cost to his psyche? I'll stick with puttering in my garden!
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
post #36 of 94
I just had to chime in and agree. The third thing I was blessed in life was the ability to stay in the field and have a family life. The second blessing was my son, 15, not as wonderful as Chroses 14 yr old but really close;) oh and driving. The first my wife.
I was just browsing this thread again and saw your posts. I can't believe I was just sitting here chatting with my son about his AP test last week and the Biology one this week. My gosh, I would have never been able to forgive myself if I let work get in the way of any of this. We have plans tomorrow morn for us to pile into his little car he's been working on and him driving us to church.:eek: 2 seater, so there be a little squeezin goin on.
Thanks for reminding me about this.:D
Stayed away from this thread for I was pretty sure that this was intended for me. Just to preface, I do not aquate sucess with money. I do not need to check myself. FTV came to us with the intention of teaching. The new regeim has decided to go with entertainment! That's fine! Just don't try to promote yourselve as anything but! I'm cool with that! I bash because Al Roker is the last person I want to tell me anything about. I noticed that most people defending FTV are not in the industry. So their concept is working!!! It's great entertainment. Just don't tell me that Pastry Chefs making showpieces and then going through obsticle courses to win 5,000. is real. It's a sad misuse of our industry if they are trying to be professional,\. That is a mockery of what I do. No complexes here. Trust me. You may think I'm an as. , but I'm as sucessful as I ever dreamed I'd be. not to mention, I'm one of the nicest guys I know:talk:


N00bchef
""You know, it's funny that some people think that Rachael Ray makes a "mockery" of our art... but... the funny thing is that even within our art there are superiority complexes... I mean there are many cultures who view their style of cuisine to be superior (for whatever reason...)

The fact is that Rachael Ray doesn't even ADDRESS the culinary arts... she simply shows people that they can do more themselves than they thought... I think alot of her recipes and ideas are somewhat rudimentary, but she never professes to out-chef anyone either.

People who view Rachael Ray as a mocker need to take a serious, hard look at what their own standards are and why they began cooking to begin with... There are no absolutes, no one can ever be completely right with their perspective... why? because you might like broccoli and I might not... simple as that. The "perfection" of food is subject only to the taste buds of the person eating it.""

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #37 of 94
Chrose. You went straight to the heart of the matter. And is not off topic, it IS the topic. During their star ride I have no doubt that these people so in the public eye had hard, sometimes even bitter choices to make. More so for women chefs, they grow their own personal aquatic world within them, with all the marvel that brings. An ordinary miracle one might suggest, but miracle none the less. And women in general terms are treated with more mercy, than a Dad who would sacrifice his eye teeth to withdraw and care for his babies as the Mum does. I am glad I am no longer young, I think the young people today face harder choices than my generation, our parents and grandparents ever faced. I said choices, not challenges. A different era, a different ethos. A different trap.

It is true to that the employed partner may be so keen to provide comforts for their family, they spiral into personal deprivation of their family. A deadly deception. Everyone looses. It is better to do without, we didn't have a tv for many years, my husband wore a uniform, which quite saved our bacon, and I wore clothes given by my sister, and my neighbour. More bacon. I was lucky, I am a registered nurse. So we bought a rest home. And could keep my kids with me as I worked. It wasn't a lot of fun for me, but it sure was fun for our patients. And our kids.

Now this IS off topic. My baby Christian was just walking by this time. He took a fancy to Mrs. W. who had been found living in a packing case. She was tiny, with a more than just tragic history. They started early, he would be with her as I showered her. He would be with her as she went to the sitting room. They didn't talk to other, but they communicated. Their own way. She had never talked in anyones memory. She saved little treats for him for when he woke up. I had brought an afternoon man in to entertain the ladies, and he did. An American man of curious charm and empathy. And a very good eye for some of the inherited art about the place. I only managed to keep him for about 10mths. but in that time he worked magic. My son was sharing Mrs W chair by then, and she had stopped her incessant rocking. They began to laugh, and he was beginning to talk. They talked. They did. And he held her hand as they walked about the place. Then he started Kindy, it was very hard for both of them. They missed each other. But one day she came outside, to my office. All by herself with photographs of her family. To show me. She had not been outside in 10 years. And had to negotiate several outside steps. A mission. She carefully walked around the big black hole she could see, with all the ravens flying in it. We had a cup of tea, she showed me her pictures. We talked, she talked by now, and then she wanted to go back to her home, so we walked around the big black hole, with the ravens in it, and back to her chair. She died not long after, and Christie has never said her name from that day to this. I let him grieve his own way, he was only three, but he knew.
post #38 of 94
Well not to get into bashing Emeril, but do you see him sweating it out on a hot line everynight? Sure he "OWNS" the forementioned restaurants, but they are his "CONCEPTS", and he has the corperate backing, in LARGE part to his tv notariaty, thats funds and sponsers these restaurants.

I had the misfortune of eating at Emerils in city walk, Orlando...food was just like most corperate restaurants. Over hyped, hoo humm cuisine and NO seasoning at all, very bland in generall. I tend to support the independent places, and was almost dragged in, didn't take long for the people I was with to see through the smoke and mirrors.

While the corperate kronies keep cooking up these "concepts", there will always be a up and coming star chefs to witch they will want to have as a namesake.

Right place, right time. Emeril has average skill, Good tv persona, and AWESOME corperate backing. He appeals to the "every man/woman", and makes them say, I can do that.
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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post #39 of 94
Crazy, you're right, and that's a shame. He decided to sell his name and it's his prerogative. I guess we all gotta do what we gotta do. I like the guy, but unless he's behind the line, you won't see me supporting his ventures either.
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
post #40 of 94
Nice post Panini, I like that.
post #41 of 94
THANKS! for real.....

I am NOT putting ANYONE down, just gets my goat when I SEE A BUNCH OF HIGH FALUTING VAGABONDS, cashing in on peoples un-beknowenst ignorant beliefs.

To each there own. God bless em for it. No fault to the damned....


BUT! It is the reason tis whole Rachel Ray Mor-it-whatreverium was enstilled...She does not promote cullinary exploration, but HOW TO POP A CAN.

Whenever I put a price on my own self, and well being,...SOMEONE SHOOT ME! I do what i do for the love of the arts...NOT to be some cookie cutter cut out of things to be. I would rather try to pull someting off 100%, then be followed by my kronies and fail when trying to make 10% profit over the rest of the market.


People need to realize that food TV, is not real tv...NOR IS IT FOOD! It is an aprroach to the common man, that simplifies things for one and for all. I am glad that people who were once blind, can now see...
I have yet to see a "food show" that encompasses the REAL aspect of being a cullinarian. And this is why the market is flooded with kids who do not know s*** about, Sh**

I regard discovery for its' aproach on fundimentaly correct cuisine, greater then the F.N.

With the up most respect to everyone on the board...
Carzy......Jon
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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post #42 of 94
I would have to say that this is the end of the line. I think we all are beating a dead horse here and this thread could go on forever with this point counterpoint opinion poll. Thats the great thing about America you can express opinions and not have to worry about a firing squad when you are done. I like Emeril, always have and always will. Do I create dishes in his style? No. I do not. Since everyone is being so up front here my favorite chef his Martin Chiffers numero uno in my book. And no one can argue that his CV speaks for itself. I have the utmost respect for everyone here because I have learned a lot from this board in the almost year that I have been here. Everyone has credible arguments. And the debate could go on forever. Lets get past this FN thing and go on to more important issues. I respect this industry though its been years since I worked in it. I have sweated as a line cook like most everyone else here.

Regards Cakerookie...
post #43 of 94
I think the thread had this destination before it even started. Previous to this thread I hadn't really noticed a bashing barrage of insults flying in the direction of Ms. Ray. I'm not going to bash her...but to make an issue against people who don't speak highly of her? Come'on.

I really think she's done a successful job in getting people interested in cooking. In a time where people view time ahead of family, eating and cooking...this is quite an accomplishment! Kudos. But...for me...it that overly bubbly personality that I have trouble watching for a full 30 minutes ;) that's my problem though. But why make it an issue? People complain if I say I don't like Racheal...people complain if there's too many people talking poorly of Bravo's Top Chef. :rolleyes:



oh well...like I said earlier...

If your tired of any discussion at all... the worst way to bring it to an end is to talk about it.


good day all!

dan
post #44 of 94
CR,
You keep trying to close this thread as boring. Sorry, but I'm enjoying it.
I will restate. I don't have a broblem with any of the shows. It's entertainment. I have a huge problem with FTV portraying themselves as some kind of professional food conduit into the home. If they just fessed up and labeled themselves as entertainment TV, I would not have a problem.
Please! See that some of the so-called chalanges and informational shows are a mockery to this profession. That's it in a nut shell. If you would like to end the thread here find. Just don't let anyone perceive this network as anything but flash. If Discovery came out with a show where they had competitions with pediatricians delivering babies and then having to run an obsticle course through medical waste, bedpans, etc. to get this bably landed in a crib with the right color hat for a 10,000. prize, you wouldn't think that some pediatricians would be a little nagetive? Please don't tell me the two don't relate because the medical field is different, most chefs put in way more time in learning then them. No insults, my best friend is a pediatric surgeon. I'm not knocking other channels with Great Chefs and such. The new bosses at FTV are focusing on a 17+ audience, and that's great! They are sucessful! They are making money off this industry!! Great!!! I'm just saying, find another way, then with, no knowlege, no talent people like al roker and a few children game show host. and if you're going to use these types, don't hide under our professional unbrella. I don't give a hoot about RR, god bless her, she has done nothing wrong and I'm sure she is working her but off. Just don't bring her across like a professional. that's all.
SOAPBOX !!!!!:talk:

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #45 of 94
I am not trying to close the thread Pan I do not have that authority. But I am glad you are enjoying it.

Regards Cakerookie...
post #46 of 94
CR,
What I said didn't come out right. But I am enjoying it. The new little quircky guy who makes no indication he knows anything about food is enjoyable to watch. Marc Sommers? any food background? he pleasant. Ray is ok but I have a feeling she signed everything away in the beginning for she appears to be getting into everything. I see burn-out for her. Ah, Behind the scenes with RR. And the directors daughter says she never dreamed she would be in front of a camera. I agree, I can't believe it either:talk:

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #47 of 94
So...ummm...does anyone like the Great Chef Series on discovery?



And this is an enjoyable thread. ALOT of people have offered brilliant insight about the whole FNTV "phenom", and as stated by a few people on the board...it is Entertainment TV, with food.

And yes, we do live in a system that allows us the luxoury to bite the hand that feeds. The ability to be able to express our own views and interprutations of/on things is what makes this great.

I know there are some very talented people on these boards, and I always look forward to winding down at the end of the day(or night, more often the case) and seeing what is going on on this site. I enjoy, AND RESPECT, everyones oppinions here, and in the real world.

This has become a total threadjack away from the Rachel Ray thing:lol:
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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post #48 of 94
Hah, what the heck, Pan is enjoying it.:lol: But you are right well said.

Regards Cakerookie...
post #49 of 94
LOL

You all warm my heart when I read you, even when you get testy ;)

I think I just need to build a professional kitchen / studio out here on our six acres in California and have you show people what it is all about! ChefTalk Network!

Cheers!
Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death! Auntie Mame
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Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death! Auntie Mame
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post #50 of 94
Absolutely enjoy the Great Chef series.
Bot,
I would sponsor something like that. I would love to have the opportunity to research and do just one show on ergonomics in the kitchen, ie: table heights,shoes,,uniforms,tools, etc. I would then be back the following year to do a sequel on the benefits of correct lighting,air flow, exhaust, noise, etc.
I don't know if tv is different but I'm already signed with the Ford agency and only require 200. per hr. Well, that's what I get from modeling, I would venture there is a picture of me in your house already. I work is usually in those huge catalogs that arrive in your home. Like JCP and those type. I'm usually in whites with some type of food item and uh last time with a pastry cutter and a pizza. do you think I'll make more on TV?
The actual kitchen part is already covered with the current stars here like Momo, Capechef, and so on. I'm looking for the little niche in which I can get some air time.:smoking:
OH!! bBTW the shows would cover both commercial and home kitchens. How easy is it going to be to get sponsers. I bet I can get a 5000. kitchen makeover and a bunch of monies with a text message contest.
I'll start working on this ASAP and you keep me updated on the progress of the set I'll be using. PS I wouldn't mind a seafood sponsor for my set, I would love to fill my freezer. Oh yea, Dyson, I have the purple one but I need more gadgets when I vaccuum.
Botanique, this is going to be a dream come true. Thank You.
pan

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #51 of 94
Absolutely enjoy the Great Chef series.
Bot,
I would sponsor something like that. I would love to have the opportunity to research and do just one show on ergonomics in the kitchen, ie: table heights,shoes,,uniforms,tools, etc. I would then be back the following year to do a sequel on the benefits of correct lighting,air flow, exhaust, noise, etc.
I don't know if tv is different but I'm already signed with the Ford agency and only require 200. per hr. Well, that's what I get from modeling, I would venture there is a picture of me in your house already. My work is usually in those huge catalogs that arrive in your home. Like JCP and those type. I'm usually in whites with some type of food item and uh last time with a pastry cutter and a pizza. do you think I'll make more on TV? Ford Take 20 bucks an hour.
The actual kitchen/chef show parts is already covered with the current TV/ Moviestars here, like Momo, Capechef, and so on. I'm looking for the little niche in which I can get some air time.:smoking:
OH!! bBTW the shows would cover both commercial and home kitchens. How easy is it going to be to get sponsers. I bet I can get a 5000. kitchen makeover from Magic Chef and a bunch of monies with a mobile text message contest.
I'll start working on this ASAP and you keep me updated on the progress of the studio and especially the set I'll be using. PS I wouldn't mind a seafood sponsor for my set, I would love to fill my freezer. Oh yea, Dyson too, I have the purple one but I need more gadgets when I vaccuum.
Botanique, this is going to be a dream come true. Thank You.
pan

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #52 of 94
Sorry Hiccup!!

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #53 of 94
Hey Pan do we get to do a series on sugar work? Heck we could call it Sugar Blast! Rig up some dynamite under a 50 pound bag of isomalt and send it to the moon! Be expensive, but so are the shuttle missions. I like the idea Bot sign me up. Pan you have to come up with a show title. I got mine whats yours. Anyone else have a plan for a show on Cheftalk Network?

Regards Cakerookie...
post #54 of 94
Het CR, I've mentioned the sugar class here in late June. No one has responded. You want to join me. All you need is a plane ticket. What do you think? If ya don't mind stayin at the house there's nothin else to cover. It's his three day credited class class. I need the credits. It all a part of my great plan to teach. It'll be fun. We can eat at The Mansion on Turtle Creek with Dean. I don't know if this is public but that venue is going away. He's takin the whole crew to open something else. Late June it'll only be about 110 during the day.

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #55 of 94
I'm in overstoke. :roll: This is better than Supermoto! (Don't let the men in my life hear that! ;) ) And I just bought a Honda CRF150!

Gotta go check on the ribs -- new slow and low watermellon / jalepeno / orange recipe with honey sesame glaze, oh yeah. My guys have been working hard all day, lots planted, cleared etc. I have to keep up the sustenance!

Let me know square footage and I'll block it out. The Awesome Pawsome 6 is about to blossom.

Barroooooo!!! All paws welcome.

Cheers! To ChelfTalk Network! (Niko, you getting any of this? ;-)
Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death! Auntie Mame
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Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death! Auntie Mame
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post #56 of 94
When I say sponsor, I mean I want to be a part. I don't think I can handle all. I hate the word partner, love the word investor.
We should have a climate control 6 bay garage. I will probably house my old cars there in case we need them for a shoot. I have a bored stock 390 with flowmasters and H pipe on the 66 pace car. The engine roar and red paint would accent a firery hot spicy dish, with maybe CC and Jim behind the wheel.
Let's attack the major priorities first!! I think the director type chairs should have out ChefTalk names on them.
I'll ask Nicko if I can start negotiating with Southwest to decal one of their jets with the ChefTalk logo to get everyone back and forth until Chrose can pick out the right jet for us to buy.
Honda Crf 150? Will it take up more then one space in the car building? Is it a SUV? or is it a bike? Oh shoot, bikes. We'll need at least two more bays for bikes. I'm sure I'm not the only person with one.

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
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post #57 of 94
I think I am in love Panini. With you. Be afraid, be very afraid...:roll:
post #58 of 94

This thread should be a sourdough

Let's "...feed the b*tch..."! I think that professional cooks need to vent after they see crap on TV like Rachel Ray's B.S. show and that peice 'O crap show on Bravo...Yeah, Harold and Lee Ann may be REAL chefs, but the rest of those useless screw-heads??? This country is stupid enough with its backwards politics and "Next Top Model" shows. Do we really need to insult professional cooks with bullsh*t like "Next Top Chef", or "Next Food TV Star"??? I think this country has made its limit of drama queens and, um...queens. Let's have a show that tells the truth...if you truly want reality! All of the cussing, smoking weed, coming in hungover, who f*cked who last night, and when the next coke score is coming around. This stuff is old news, but probably very interesting to the general public. For the most part, real cooks aren't nice. They don't like "you", even though "you", pay their paycheck. Here's a few "Don't You Ever Mother F*ckin' Do That Twice":
Don't try to talk to a cook when a chef is already telling him what to do.
Don't ask a cook what his favorite thing to cook is. It won't be glamourous, but it will be delicious.
Don't ask a cook what temp he thinks YOUR steak should be. If you're at a bar or in a deli, you better know what you want! Same with the guy who's gonna cook your meat, baby!
Don't ask a cook what his pet peeve is...you'll be there all day listening to him b*tch!!!
Don't ask a cook if you can buy him a drink after work...ask him if you can buy him drinkSSSSS!!!
post #59 of 94
:roll:YES, YES, and YES!:roll:


WOW! I like this post...though it might bring the hammer down from some prudist, fundimentalists, THIS POST IS WHATS UP!

The food network can not show the seedy underbelly of the true food and beverage industry...and niether can Anthony Bordaine. Chefing/cookin/whatever, is NOT a glamourous industry as the "TV" would make people believe. The Food Network is a major reason the cullinary industry is being overwhelmed with wannabes'...it does not portray an image that holds true to the industry. Not to mention some of the hired help on the network who have little to no skills, this is what alot of kids are seeing, and say "I wanna be that!"

Anywho....Rachel Ray.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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Like all good meals, this too shall pass
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post #60 of 94
Actually I would like 2 shows please. The first one I would like to partner with Shroomgirl and we would do a "Best of the US". We would forage for Truffles black and white ones. Shroom would teach us all the fruits of the forest and we would cook them. Then off to the coast for seafood, then all other parts of the US for landlocked fish etc. Grains from the midwest, etc. Basically Euell Gibbons meets Shroomgirl type of situation.

Then at 11:00 I would have my own show called $150 a day. In which I would see if I could spend a $150 on food in one day. It could be breakfast, lunch, dinner, or just dinner, or breakfast and drinks:eek:
After that show ran it's course I could do a reality series on obesity and high cholesterol featuring...me:smoking:
My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
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My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
Reply
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