Terminologies of Cuts - Page 2

GodfatherChef
"i have the utmost respect for everybody in this forum who shows respect for everybody else. there is no reason that we should get upset and disrespect each other. thats not what being a chef is all about, at least not to me. i have been through many things in my short life thus far that have humbled far beyond anything that i can imagine. i have had to go through 2 divorces, the suicide of my mother, and most recently, i am starting to recover from cancer. this should have all made me a very bitter person, but it's only made me want to enjoy my life that much more. "

Thank You, You just knocked me off my ladder and as I hit the ground, my ears are ringing.
Your GD right. There is so much more important things in life.I usually don't slip back. As time goes by, sometimes we forget! I wish you a speedy recovery. It's all about attitude, my friend. You'll be fine. I'm 12 years out and my wife is six years out from cancer and transplants. So we shall stay conected, ok?
Jeff

thank you, pan
i appreciate it very much. i wish the best to you and your wife.
we shall keep in touch indeed

To the post prior,
I would be very careful not to make assumptions. Only
a few connected people within this forum know anything
about the families and past of others. I think it might
be wrong to assume anyone is from a priviliged backround.
No one can know what sacrifices each of us made to get
where we are today. I, for one, don't speak much about
my sacrifices, because they are mine!!! True, we can not
all be the same, as if cut out from cookie cutters, but a
big part of what we do depends on doing things the same.
I often look at cooking as a language. Written and spoken.
There does exist a little room for personal interpretation when speaking, but,
the word must be written the same every time for the language to be
successful. Sure, there are new words that show up in each
years dictionary, but, for the majority of the words, there
can be only one way to spell them. Okay, Okay, a little
hokey I admit. I am only saying that it is okay to take joy
in tradition and custom. Its nothing to be ashamed of. There
are absolutes. I am humbled by the fact that so many others
before me, even in death, offer me the tools to practice my trade.
At times I think the old style culture of cooking will probably die out,
although I hope not. Often I wonder what it would be like if this
computor melted away and we were all standing in front of each other,
or if we were working together. Am I that sure of myself? I am.
Would I be up to muster compared to all the others at this post?
I don't know. But, this has been my trade for so long that it is
part of me. I feel more comfortable in whites and checks than in
normal clothes. Oh! I do ramble. Have a splendiferous morning!

One last reply.

I do not speak french and am a poor speller. I am also mostly from
rural Georgia. At times I can slaughter terms in french as any of you
can imagine. I do know a fare amount of the terms and use them
frequently. Thank a million Hans. Just having someone listen and take
the time to reply means the world to me. I could give a *&^%$ less
about how your posts came across. I could read between the lines.
I thought you were very eloquent, especially since this is not your first
lanquage. I am in awe of your accomplishments and very respectful of
where it has ultimately taken you. Hope to learn more from you in the
future. I may be a hillbilly, but, with a little help, I'll at least have a firm
grasp on the only trade I know. It was truly and honor.
The best to you and your family. "Don't let the door hit you,
where the good Lord split you. Will type at you later.

Respectfully,

Even Stephen

Mesopotamia (sp?)...Fast Food...Street Carts...

Romans...pizzarias....

Yeah...Mr. "History" needs to study more...

My FOURTEEN YEAR OLD DAUGHTER told me about these...

April

I'll be honest, I just finished culinary school and sometimes I have to stop and actively think what the dimensions are on various cut names. I know some basics that I use often:

small/medium/large dice, brunious (forgive my spelling), julienne, paysanne, rondelle, etc...

But for the most part I think that it's VERY MUCH a "use it or lose it" kind of knowledge. We remember what cuts we use most often, and forget about the stuff we don't ever use, or use on such a rare occasion we have to ask/look it up to verify whether or not we've forgotten it.

I can't remember how many times my chef instructor would walk by and have that look on her face like she wanted to slap me upside the head for having horrible knife skills. She actually had a few metal "cut guides" that we had to use if we screwed up. It was essentially a slab of metal with little cut-outs the size of what we were supposed to be cutting.

Like always though, I think it BEGINS with training, and CONCRETES itself with use. If you don't use it, you WILL forget it eventually. Some things just aren't "like riding a bike".

Obviously it helps in communication in any situation to have a universal language that everyone understands, this contributes to understanding and consistency on a universal level,,,, but at the same time as an employer you need to understand that not everyone will come form the same background. Or look at it in the sense of having over 85% of your staff non-english speaking people! Im trying to teach them english, and they are suppose to know french terminology? Not at this point in time, that would be unreasonable. I think a great chef would know the french names and terminology, and be able to teach this to a willing cook, but at the same time be able to adapt and understand that not everyone will know. As long as you can get the cuts you want from your staff, and they are of good quality and consistency, and as long as you can convey your thoughts and wants, have open lines of communication to your staff, then you could call the classic vegetable cuts whatever the **** you wanted to. Infact, I may just change the cut brunoise to "the squirrel cut"....

Think I said that, way back in the second or third page of this thread as well....

thats what I get for skipping a page *sigh* I was on my way to work and wanted to make my point before I was late. sorry mate:smoking:

good evening to all

Ancient thread, going back to 2006, if I remember correctly, and  alot of the posters no longer with us.

 

Why did you pick this one out of the dust?

so you can ask silly questions...obviously.  Hey pot2, welcome to cheftalk. 

what are the difference with stocks and mirepoix?

Wow does this bring back memories! I almost feel like looking up the good Chef Kaiser and starting this back up!

some exec chef's don't even know the correct terminology... frustrating because they ask you to do a cut and you do it right, but they meant a different cut. i would just demo it to clear up any confusion.

Originally Posted by Huy Bui 

Ahhh the assurance of youth. 

 

The truth is there is not complete consistency in size from kitchen to kitchen.  Not even in Paris.   

 

Alumette, baton and batonet are particularly hapahazard.  No joy there.

 

On the "good communication is good cooking" side, it's safe to assume julienne and brunoise are annoyingly small and that each tourne d'spuds classique gets seven sides -- but if you think you can get an exact definition in mm or inches that will survive crossing the street, Mais beinsur non. 

 

It's whatever the exec says it is.  It turns out (s)he actually knew all along.

 

BDL

Edited by boar_d_laze - 7/28/10 at 5:07pm

BDL, that may be true and whatever chef says goes, but those words have definitions... just because ignorance runs rampant among this profession does not mean we have to perpetuate it. if chef says up is down, then up is down... but that is obviously not true.

 

my point still stands, just demo it and call it whatever you like, then there will be no confusion.

Edited by Huy Bui - 7/28/10 at 8:38pm

Quote:

They are two completely different things. Mirepoix is 2 part Onions, 1 part Celery, and 1 part Carrots... a common aromatic flavoring ingrdient for french cuisine. 

 

A stock is made by simmering bones/ vegetables in water and aromatics. (sometimes including mirepoix) This is used for soups or flavoring foods.

Mirepoix is very often two parts onion, 1 part carrot and 1 part celery as Hui Buy said -- but by no means always.  Both the proportions and ingredients are subject to rather significant change.  Parsnips are often substituted for carrots, leeks for onions, celery omitted altogether, mushrooms added, a little bit of pork belly added (mirepoix gras), green peppers added, and so on. 

 

A couple of common variations are the creole/cajun trinity of celery, onions and peppers; Italian soffritto; and the Spanish/Latin-American sofrito of garlic, tomato and onions.

 

At its most basic mirepoix is a mix of chopped aromatics used to build a flavor base as part of a more complicated dish.  Sometimes it is strained out -- as with  stocks; and sometimes it's a featured garnish -- as in many poules.  

 

If you're going to strain it out, you can get away with rough cutting.  If it will be served as a garnish, it's usually cut in a medium dice.

 

BDL

All of the vegetable cuts I believe were to develop a sort of consistency in cooking.and prep.That no matter where you went Brunoise meant a certain way. I am 68 years old been in this business since I was 15. Worked in hi end and other places. Have worked in Europe in the Negresco Hotel in Nice and other places. Apprenticed at the Old Hotel Pierre and Astor in NYC.and no matter where it was the termonology  of cooking and prep was the same. The C.I.A. was a storefront in Connecticut run by a woman lawyer who also tried to teach consistency. It was all done for the sake of consistency which I believe is the key to a good restaurant . Escoffier and the rest of the European chefs fostered it and they handed it down to us. They taught us well.

 We in turn taught them . We taught them mass production and how to get it out. When I was in Europe it took 4 cooks to produce a dinner on the line, here 3 guys dish out 200 or more .

I haven't been a member here for a very long time. Poor me, I was just looking up some French terms I couldn't find in my textbook. I'm happy that since I joined, everyone seems to be helpful and respectful. I am very proud to let others know that I am a member of the ChefTalk community and plan to send my classmates here, as well.

 

Never did find the answer to my query (what are the dimensions of the macedoine cut?) because I got sidetracked by some negativity from six years ago.

 

Love it here.

 

Soon to be "Chef Marian," 60 years young!!!

Perhaps this will help? https://www.google.com/search?q=macedoine+cut&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 

 

the French have a descriptive word for everything, the Spanish have more Michelin stars per capita than anywhere else, on the planet, and a couple of times in the past the Americans saved their collective bacons so they could continue to cook, just sayin...............

Everyday,
1) If it weren't for France, there never would have been a U.S.
2) As someone who has a fairly strong grasp on U.S., Spanish, European and World history, I can't recall the US EVER doing anything which went very far in Spanish interests. Perhaps you'd care to elucidate. And
3) Just sayin'.

Sissy,
Pardon my outbreak, and pardon the long delay in giving you an answer.

Anyway... The standard for Macedoine tends to be a little more relaxed than those for other, more rigorous cuts. And even those tend to vary from kitchen to kitchen.

• If you're working in a professional kitchen where everything is very exact, you cut Macedoine alumette;
• It's helpful to use a gauge. If you use a knife with rivets in the handle, Macedoine are roughly the same size as rivet.

But it can sometimes be a matter of usage.

• That is, If you're doing raw fruits for a Macedoine salad, the cubes are around 1/3" square; but
• If you're doing root vegetables for a soup, they're cut smaller -- around 1/4" square.

Hope this helps,
BDL

1) If it weren't for France, there never would have been a U.S.

2) As someone who has a fairly strong grasp on U.S., Spanish, European and World history, I can't recall the US EVER doing anything which went very far in Spanish interests. Perhaps you'd care to elucidate. And

3) Just sayin'.

 

Well BDL, as a member of the oldest US democratic society still in existence I take umbrage and exception to your reference to France, since you have such a "fairly strong grasp on US" history look up "Forgotten Founders" and get back to me. If you can't find it I'll be happy to email you a copy.  

 

2. Bueller, Bueller anyone? Spanish American War? With defeats in Cuba and the Philippines, and both of its fleets incapacitated, Spain sued for peace.

Hostilities were halted on August 12, 1898, with the signing in Washington of a Protocol of Peace between the United States and Spain. After over two months of difficult negotiations, the formal peace treaty, the Treaty of Paris, was signed in Paris on December 10, 1898, and was ratified by the United States Senate on February 6, 1899.

 

WWII Franco's regime of open support to the Axis Powers led to a period of postwar isolation for Spain as trade with most countries ceased. U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, who had assured Franco that Spain would not suffer consequences from the United Nations (a wartime term for those nations allied against Germany), died in April 1945. Roosevelt's successor, Harry S. Truman, as well new Allied governments, were less friendly to Franco. A number of nations withdrew their ambassadors, and Spain was not admitted to the United Nations until 1955.

 

 

How did the US help them, The US let Spain off the proverbial hook by exhibiting unpopular catch and release instead of fillet and release!

 

 

 

When the Spanish Civil War erupted (in 1936) after the failed right-wing coup, Secretary of State Cordell Hull moved quickly to ban what would have been legitimate arms sales to the democratically elected Popular Front government of the Second Spanish Republic, forcing the Popular Front to turn to the Soviet Union for support.

The Nationalists, led by Francisco Franco, received important support from some elements of American business.

1.The American-owned Vacuum Oil Company in Tangier, for example, refused to sell to Republican ships and at the outbreak of the war,

2.the Texas Oil Company rerouted oil tankers headed for the republic to the Nationalist controlled port of Tenerife,and supplied gasoline on credit to Franco until the war's end. 3. American automakers Ford, Studebaker, and General Motors provided a total of 12,000 trucks to the Nationalists.

 

After the war was over, José Maria Doussinague, the undersecretary at the Spanish Foreign Ministry, said, "without American petroleum and American trucks, and American credit, we could never have won the Civil War.

 

 

Very topical and recent

 http://www.newsmax.com/WayneAllynRoot/Spain-financial-collapse-Obama/2012/05/01/id/437629

 

JUST SAYIN!

 

 

the ball is in your court....................care to volley?

 

 

What, exactly, does this mean? France brought the US into existence?

Scuse me, but I believe the continent was here, and well populated too, before any Europeans bumped into it on their way to India. 

Agree FoodnFoto, I was referring to the Haudenosaunee, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois 6 Nations, the French called Iroquois