What are true chef

chef k., i have the utmost respect for you, and i completely agree with your 4 principles. very well said :chef:

If i want sushi, really good sushi, i want to see a japanese apprenntice trained sushi chef behind the counter. Sorry bout that reality.

Lots of great chefs and cooks do it for the money, just as a lot of other crafts. LOve is not a direct replacement for technical competance.

Many of them are atheists and agnostics, not freemasons.

And i don't need to understand them. Just thier cuisine. And while languages are helpful, they are not mandatory. When I am in another cultural arena, I try to adapt. When others are in mine, I expect the same. And yes virginia, call me xenophopic if you will, but there ARE inferior cultures out there that I have no time or level of understanding for.

Sorry, Rivitman, but I have to disagree with you on Chefs "doing it for the money". Quite frankly, when you factor in the time spent, there isn't that much money being earned. For all of those who enter the profession soley for the money, they find out in quite a hurry ...

No, if you want to earn the big bucks, you have to deal with people. Real estate agents get their commision for just a few phone calls, Insurance agents may have to work a little harder. Unlike agents, Doctors and lawyers have to go to school, but since they treat people, they earn thier fare share.

Technical competance is mandatory for a good cook or Chef, but s/he must love their craft in order to assert themselves to keep ontop of things: New ingredients, new techniques, food science. You never stop learning, and you never stop applying what you learned to your craft. If you do not love your craft you will have a finite amount of knowledge, declare yourself a master that doesn't need to learn anything more, and have no desire to apply new ideas to your craft.

I'm an atheist. What does a belief in parasitical memes got to do with cooking?

I think the most omportant lesson for a chef to learn:
Work to live
Don't live to work.
Your job is something you do so you have the means to enjoy this universe. The burn out is soo high because soo many get wrapped up in living to work.

just remember that there are some whom - love, to live to work.
as long as i have a little time in the AM to catch a surf, and a little time before dinner service to get a run in IM GOLDEN. i've been in this wonderfull business for over 20 years, and with the exception of ill-advised owners who know nothing of the business they have fallen into- this is the perfect place for one with alot of energy and love for food..

IPWF'
You're right. There are plenty of people who live to work and really enjoy it, not only in this bus. but other professions.
You're obviously grounded if you understand it. There are a lot of people who get so wrapped they lose track of the world around them,family,friends etc. I think that those with great passion do this. I know I did it for years. Then family came along and I changed.No less passion, but the ability to break away to look at myself from the outside in.
I know so many chefs that were not able to make any kind of transition to rearrange priorities. That's not to say that is the right way, but when they got to the place where they should have rearranged things to accomodate family and such they self destructed.
IPWF, there are also people that only work to live. I have grown to the point where I can respect this type of person also. For years I looked at people that did not have that passion and just came to work for a check somewhat of a slacker. I respect these people as much as all others.
I meant no insult to people like you, heck, I envy you. I often dream of a schedule like yours, only throw in a couple of hours fishing a week. I also wonder if your not working to live with the right job, would you be as happy if you could'nt catch a wave and run.;)

YEA. there are times (often) we duty calls and i'm unable to get my relax time in. but, after all, this is the profession i chased from an ealry age.
there is nothing better than creating a new menu for feed back and get 80% smiles and the other half feed back to make better dishes.
the day to day work is a challenge, because everyday there is always a new challenge. (no call no shows, the fish looks like poop, vendors forgets something, a pop-up of 40 rolls my way with a set menu by the BNQT - MANAGER, new foh doesnt know the menu, whatever)
but just knowing that i will be able to get in the water, and let mother nature calm me down is such a great level-er. it keeps me grounded and focused.

There came a point in time when I had to make a choice. It was when I was doing splits that I would be home for 2 hours in the afternoon and then back to work. My son who then was all of 3 or so would cry for me not to leave. I would leave before he was awake and then come back home when he was asleep. I knew from experience the hours I would be in if I kept with the track I was taking. I decided then and there that watching my son grow up was more important than any career path I could take. All the money in the world can't bring back not teaching him to ride a bike, or teaching him how to roller blade. I gave up a lot but what I got back was far more than I would have gotten with my career. My career now is in a weird place for a variety of reasons, but I watched him grow up and can talk about all the funny things he did as a kid, that I might have missed otherwise. Although now that he's 14 and becoming more independant with a teens smarta** attitude I sometimes wonder....:D
Nah, I would do it over a hundred times!:chef:

EDITED: To iterate my point and how it relates to this thread, that when given the choice to turn my life over to my career or my family, my family came first, career came second. I gave my all in the kitchen and I do the same for my family.

Dude///

Are you a chef...or do you spend all your time pontificating?

I for one am getting a tad tired of your soap box stuff...

April

AprilB,
What is that all about? If that's a soapbox, then bring it on. I get a chill when I hear things like that. I did the same thing for different reasons.
Today was my first driving lesson with my 15 yr old. I can't even describe it. I spent the whole time trying not to do anything my dad did, and the rest of the time looking at facial hair and how long his hair is.

April since your post came right after mine I can only assume you're referring to me. If that's the case, I have been here for 5+ years, I have all the experience as a Chef and business owner that I need that I don't have to justify my existence to you. As far as pontificating if you feel that way so be it. If you don't like my posts skip over them. But I really do think you're over reacting.

chrose-
i understand where you coming from, but you have to remember not all of us are blessed with having kidz. im a single hombre that enjoys the life of the kitchen.. if I had little ones I'm sure my views would be very,very, similar to yours, if not identical. but you ALL have to know by now differences in all aspects of people and life is what makes the world go round.. it takes all kinds to make this crazy business run.. and with out being able to play with food for a living -- where would WE all be???????

IPWF, I was that way when I was single too. I lived and breathed the kitchen, home was simply a place I slept. I went out and partied with my co-workers before, during and after work. Nowhere in my post did I make any assertions that what I did was the way to go. I simply posted what I did, for no other reason but to show the choice I made. You're right maybe one day when and if you have kids you'll feel the same, maybe you won't. It's your life to do what you want. So don't get me wrong, I make no "pontifications" about anyone elses life and decisions, I only speak of what I did, for me.

Chrose...no...not directed at you...

I'm sorry, but I am getting tired of condescending insinuations and posts that essentially don't have a point. My Father in Law was a pure Swiss businessman and was in marketing/sales for Knoor's. He had an almost impossible thick accent, so I'm familiar with language barriers...but...I honestly don't think that's the problem. Sometimes it seems like even being in agreement isn't good enough. The "Yes, but..." thing only indicates that the person you're conversing with hasn't heard a word you said.

It's one thing to start a thread to share information or ask about a subject, or even ideas, but I'm not really reading that either. It sounds like late night preachy rambling.

So if anyone is thinking something like, well, don't read his posts...I really don't intend to. I kept expecting them to turn into something useful. (or at least some of the responses.)

I'm pretty easy going in general and have tried to find humor in some of the discussions (Got Milk?) but I've seen pitbulls less tenacious about fixating on topics. (Like continually dwelling on the age thing? Jeez.)

Anyway, I hope that you (or Pan or...) didn't misconstrue my irritation.

April
:roll:

What was the name of this thread? What is a true chef?

I am.....care to dance ?

me too, but my dancecard is full and my feet are tired from cooking all day.
What's cool about Cheftalk is the commraderie the group has had for YEARS...read the number of posts each of these "oldtimers" has contributed to the community....it's not abusive, derisive or outright rude...if disagreements come up they are handled with respect not personal attacks.

Chrose has had so many years of experience in top notch kitchens...as well as that Alaska gig (do they have white linen that far north? :) He rocks...
he's cheftalk family and we love him....and his posts are wonderful. If you have any questions whatsoever of his abilities in a kitchen, wander back through the archives baby...he's played with some of the best and the best don't play with just anyone. I pay attention to his posts.

Still wish we could dance, I promise to carry your bags this time,I so agree shroom about Chrose, always respectful, always informative, and moreover, such a truly great person. I have seen Chrose posting lately with passion that I admire. Panini too.

Long time friends are we, virtual or physical.

:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: Boy is my face red! I would like to say that I received a very nice note from April B. As has happened many more times than once timing gets crossed and posts get mixed. Many times I would write a long winded post and get usurped by the time I hit the send button and have to go back and edit:mad: again and again.
As of lately I am just going through my own personal trials (stress), nothing big, mostly in my own head and some of what has been going on here has been stressing me, both for the nonsensical pablum that has been spewed but my own concern for Nicko & Cheftalk. I have seen too many BB's get so involved with sniping that the owners had to step in and take drastic action. I know we are better than that, but still I worry.
So all is good, and April B is great! And Shroom (hey see that, as I'm writing CC has posted and now I have to edit again!!!)
Anyhoo Shroom (and now Brad!) the kind words are too much. It really is nice, does wonders for my ego (how much do I owe you?) Almost reminds me of the Sammy Maudlin show! Now who besides Brad is going to get that reference?
I really do appreciate all of you. I'm going to go drink now, have a wonderful night, I know mine just got better!!! :beer: :beer: :beer: :bounce: :chef:

God I miss SCTV :smiles:

who? were they the ones that used to post in 2002? SCTV...nope, no memory of them.

Carry my bags? your on.....here we come Union Sq....gee there are probably a whole lot more farmers there now that it's Spring.....I bet you guys have rhubarb, my rhubarb farmer up and retired after 70+ years of selling on the market...jiminy 90+ years old been at Soulard since 1930 and he ups and retires. Noone else is growing rhubarb in these parts, seems as if everyone thinks its not salable. I miss him. Bet you got asparagus too, possibly interesting cheeses, bet the biodynamic folks have shtuff now, and the capon guy and the strawberries are probably coming out.....hmmm micro sprouts, lettuces, spinach, japanese turnips....say you got a cart? I'm about out of that fruffy great aged basalmic from the Italian store on Spring that had killer fresh mozz....
Olive oil and parmesan that was date, numbered and labled by the season it was produced....and it was not exspensive.
My dear friend Marc Felix talks about Whole Food in Time Warner with a gleem in his eyes....bet they got cool shtuff there too. seems like there are taxis around NYC, course they are alittle scary....kinda like bumper cars going 90 mph on streets that are busy, and have lights and walking people....
I read Tom Colicceo (sp?) has got a cool new steak house with differently aged steaks...wanna do a vertical tasting? Market start May 20th and if I don't get away now I won't get away until Oct....reality of a farmer's market.

Craft steak,
I'm there.

Never been a huge fan of rhubarb, but i love the natural pectin for texture and preparing preserves. Asparagus is just now coming in strong. Firm exterior, crunchy/creamy interior

That's why I love this guy! Never misses a beat :D

Ahh, SCTV, those guys, John Candy, Rick Moranis, Eugene Levy, "Canadian Content"....

Neat philosophy but how do you Iron chef it?.....We should have a country iron chef one from each country battle it out ...

I love God too and jesus (whoops wrong chat line) and are thankful for all the beautifl produce we can have and the one did give us "dominion" over all the earth.

being a chef

it takes all your life to learn how to cook and 15 minutes to become a chef

a job interview

i think a good chef should love to cook and put out good food

and train and inspire his staff to do the same

after that a good chef should be conscious of his food and labor costs

after a while it comes pretty natural writing menus, utilizing your products

trying to keep your orders on par

Id rather be on the line sometimes, but your stuck in the office crunching numbers and pnl's doing schedules

then managing people can be tough, with the daily drama and turnover

its a crazy buisness

*yawn*

This conversation is the intellectual version of the skanky old horse waiting at the knackers yard for the inevitable - if you really want to know check out the forum archives.

The horse isnt dead, but we've commenced flogging it.

I second the motion...........