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post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Not a political statement!
But I would like to be the first Texan to appologise for the rediculous antics of our president to gain a few popularity points.
Let's face it. Drop the word illegal immagrant and use Mexicans. This is the hunt. These idiot poloticians don't know the half. There are almost as many Mexicans comming in through Canada. Do ya think the cross here to go up north?
I don't have the figures, but I'm sure there are as many other immigrants, illegally here, cumulativly. Where's the threats!!! Fines!! You MUST speak English. I speak english and I can't go get a slurpy, gas car wash, cab ride,etc. without having to point because I can't communicate.
We need to stop the hunting of Mexicans!!!! We need to bring everyone to the party if we bring them. Illegal immigrants from all countries.
Who's next??? Chineese,Italians,French?
This is the hugest problem on the politicians plates right now!!!
Yeah right! BTW lost a few more boys today in a helicopter crash!
Did I hear Bush right that he made that soldier a citizen??? If so, does the word hypocrite sound right.
Learn english so you can understand when were screwin ya.
post #2 of 28
Hey Panini, sounded political to me. But no need for any texan to appologize. As I recall, the first thing on his agenda in the first term was to address this and to have a guest worker program. His first state visit was the Mexican President. I gather from your posts that this is an important issue for you. Clearly you feel strongly for your employees. Here in Florida we have similar issues, I'm a latino myself. I saw Bill Frist on T.V. today backing away from his obnoxious stand and backing a path for citizenship for undocumented aliens. The President sends some Nat'l Guard to help at the border and the house agree's to stop calling the undocumented felons. Sometimes, one hand washes the other. Here in FLA, the perception is the Bush Brothers are Latino friendly. When Jeb gives a speech, often times he re deliveres it in spanish. He's fluent. My wife & I get a kick out of that. On another note, I really loved your idea about a Mexican breakfast place. When you posted it in the Rick Bayless forum, all bells went off in my head and I've been thinking about it ever since.

post #3 of 28

Sorry...couldn't resist. Glad to see a rather off topic non cooking thread.

Honestly, the only thing as of late I can agree on with Mr.Bush, is the whole National Anthem mumbo jumbo.H***, I share citizenships w/ the US and UK, and it erked me when a spanish anthem was introduced. When I lived in the Netherlands, I didn't whine and kick and scream untill I had everything I needed. I learned Dutch, even though 99% spoke english.

If you move, imigrate(leagally or ill), adapt, learn and embrace the culture. And for so many imigrants to complain about things here, and our current state of affairs...why do they still come?!

As a dual citizen in the U.S., I rather enjoy the ability to speak freely about these types of things. And to the next president, good luck, you have got your work cut out for ya.
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
post #4 of 28
Illegal immigrants???? that's half of my kitchen....that's feeding most of my city! We need to start learning Spanish so we can build an army to defend ourselves against China. Their food is not all that good, so bare arms, Americans! It's our constitutional right and our duty to avoid being ruled by a people whose food s*cks!!!!!!
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
You're right, it was probably political. I was just twisted. I have no concern for my employees, my small crew are all legal. We went through the whole friggin process last time this was brought up. No one remembers. It was a mess, period. I can remember dropping my pastrychef off at 3pm to get in line to maybe be seen the fo9llowing afternoon or the next day if they didn't decide they were overwhelmed and shut down for a couple of days.
Your right, this was a small issue with bush. OF COURSE! the are Latino friendly. The monies that social security and medicare recieves from undoc. illegals who have a SS card of someone passed or whatever is staggaring!!!
They know these people will never recover any of those monies. And now he wants to fine those people on top. I don't know Nentony, yes I'm close.
This is all a reaction. What if the boys want to go after the Cuban people next?
post #6 of 28
Crazytatt, were you aware that that song was recorded by a British record producer? It definately didn't find any hispanic fans, it was just a lame attemt to make some money.

post #7 of 28
"What if the boys want to go after the Cuban people next?

Thats a hoot! Who do you think elected them? Also, Sen. Mel Martinez (Cuban) is the co-author of the imigration reform legislation most likely to pass. Cubans are pretty well organized politically. That was the interesting thing about all those massive demonstration recently. All those Mexicans were hopefully looking at each other with light bulbs over their heads. They should get organized politically and have a say in all this.

post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
I absolutely agree. The representation is mediocre at best. Cubans vote. Mexicans have just resently started to pay attention to polotics, at least here. I don't want to burst any bubbles there but I can tell you the Hispanic population here is definately leaning Democratic. So I might not be so far off:eek:
Nen, Tell me, is there a large population of illegals there? Or do I have my facts skewed? I'm trying to remember welcoming Cubans and Mexicans here not so long ago.
post #9 of 28
The hispanic population here is very diverse. There are no illegal Cubans here because of a law granting them residency if they get here. You could argue that that is unfair and you'd have a good argument. Aside from Cubans there are many nicaraguans, venezuelans, costa ricans, Guatemalans, you name the central or south American country and there is a pretty good population in South Fla. Most are legal, many are not. They tend to come here legally on short term visas and then just stay. As you head toward Central Fla, on either coast or the center, there are more Mexicans. In the county I live in Puerto Ricans are the largest hispanic group, and of course they are legal, followed by Mexicans and cubans. There is a sizable Brazillian population here as well, I think because the Surfing industry. I was born in S. Florida and am of Cuban decent. My wife is Colombian, but born in Minnesota.(lol, no place for a colombiana) I'm not suprised to hear you say that Mexicans lean democrat, here, with the exception of Cubans, most hispanics also lean left. Like any decent self respecting Cuban, I am a republican. Alas, my wife often cancells out my vote. Doesn't matter, some issues cut through party allegiances and immigration is one of them. We're seeing some unusual alliances in D.C.
By the way, my computer name is a combination of my wifes name (Nen) and mine (Tony)

post #10 of 28
Ahhhhh, figures. Thanks for the update!:D
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
Like all good meals, this too shall pass
post #11 of 28
I would guess the emphasis on unauthorized Mexican immigrants is because they account for nearly 69% of all the illegal immigrants in the US (these are 2000 estimate figures). The closest country of origin of Illegals are from El Salvador with only 2.7%. From there...the percentages continue to drop even further. I can't understand when people try to say that this is a Mexican issue and not simply about unauthorized immigrants. Heck...I'm only the second generation in my family , born here in the US. But the difference...we came over here legally. Big difference!

While a republican...the immigration policies are just another area where I don't align well with President Bush.

post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 
I guess I just not on board with the whole way this country is being run now. Especially the current oily guys trying to hide under the umbrella of religion to censur , regulate my personal life, evesdrop on me, track my movements in communications, etc.
This is definately a Mexican issue, but the part that scares me is where does this stop. My family were original WOPS. So are they here illegally?
This whole thing is such a non issue, right now! BTW another boys life lost today over there, remember over there? It's politics and we're the pawns.
I could maybe understand if there was a threat of Mexican terrorists. Is this group really a threat to us? I think the main threat is the mass number people here that noone even knows about.To go after this group of people is a witch hunt for a couple of popularity points for fear that the Rep.'s might lose a little ground to the inevetable. Not saying this is a better move, but the greasing of palms will shift.
My Texas point of view is the biggest criminal acts here are not at the border, they are in our educational system. Second from the bottom? The US is 17th in the world producing scientist.
Sorry everyone, I just needed to vent a little. Hectic few months.
post #13 of 28
I am just wondering when Washington is going to realize that the US cannot be a policeman for the entire world. I support our troops 1000% because I was once one of them for 7 years. I think Washington needs to back up and take a look at the big picture for a change. Does this remind you of any history that you recall? WW2, Hitler spread himself so thin on so many fronts that he left weak spots in his armor that the Allies took advantage of. No I do not agree with a lot of it but our troops need our support even if Washington can't see the forest for the trees. Not saying Bush is Hitler! Not what I am implying, what I am saying is that the President needs to realize that everything cannot be solved with brute military force and "shock & awe!"

Regards Cakerookie...
post #14 of 28
What a wonderful thing to see such robust debate on such a potentially inflamatory subject. You people are great. Illegal immigration is going on all over the world. 'They' are driving plane loads of Somalian people straight from the the airport to the welfare (dole) office here, a 3 day stay in Mangere Centre, and onto their 3 bedroom, fully furnished and carpeted homes in Mt Roskill and other suburbs. And yes, a vacumn cleaner is provided along with linen, blankets, duvets and clothing, toaster, etc. not that they know how to use them. Washers and dryers all in place. Not dishwashers as far as I know, not yet anyway. All the stuff we worked so **** hard for.
post #15 of 28
CakeRookie...with all due respect. We are NOT all illegal. The mistreatment of American Indians or the fact that they lived on this land before me has nothing to do with my legal status...nor any other person.

I'd agree that this whole issue is primarily dealing with Mexican illegals...as there are a very high number of illegal (unauthorized if you prefer) immigrants.

As far as I know it...The Italian immigrants that passed thru Ellis Island and allowed to enter were US citizens. Those of them that were denied entry were sent back. I have heard from my family that WOP stood for without papers. I've also heard that this meaning of WOP is incorrect. I'm not sure. But I do know that my grandparents (fathers side) came from Sicily and central Italy thru Ellis Island. They were all US citizens...and very proud of it. I would suspect that if your family came thru around this same time...they were also US citizens.

I believe your trying to make quite a stretch comparing Italians that had troubles coming thru Ellis Island and were allowed to pass to Mexicans that illegally crossed a border in an attempt to live and work in the US without authorization. Sometimes contributing to the problems by possessing fake ID's and drawing on other peoples (living and dead) social secruity accounts. This is NOT the same thing as your trying to compare it to.

Again...I believe the reason why unauthorized Mexican in the US are targeted are because they are thought to posses over 68% of ALL unauthorized immigrants in the US. With the next nearest unauthorized immigrant origin being 2.7%. To me...it seems like common sense to go after a group that is that much larger than all the others. When one group is estimated to be over 67% and the others 2.7% or less...there is little comparison.

No matter if ANY unauthorized immigrant is a national or personal threat or not is only part of the issue...that was until recently not much thought of. The larger complaints of illegal immigrants are the draw on the public systems that they sometimes take from...such as jobs, taxes, social security fraud, identity fraud, emergency medical services, education and others. I would much rather support a legal immigrant from any country with my earned money. I would also look forward to whatever they would bring to my community from their homeland.

But these problems are not unique to the US...

Because this can be such touchy subject...I will try to keep the rest of my comments to myself...and I'll stop here :)

good day all :)

post #16 of 28
Thread Starter 
No need to hold your comments in. That how we learn. Heck, I'm just glad to be talking to you. It's been a while.
I'm really not trying to defend anyone, but the situation is kinda due to the US enabling this to go on so long and now the whip. There is no comparissions from the past. I hope you know I'm a little smarter then that.
I do visit my parents frequantly in there nice new appartment complex. Over the past year I have witnessed hundreds of immigrants from Russia arrive here, get an apartment voucher for 165. to live in the exact same 2 bedroom apartment the my folks pay 925. The 165. is put up by the Local Jewish Federation, and they are immediately put right into the system with SS, food banks, etc.
I guess I'm just so close to this it's hard. I don't really give a rats behind about republicans,democrats, politics etc. I care about the many, many, good friends,church friends, etc. I have here. I don't know their status, I would probably be surprised be the amount of illegals. But I do know that they have for years contributed to this community and state. I hate the label criminal. If it's criminal to fudge a little on your taxes and the punishment was to totally uproot, dismantle settled families, maybe some would think different. As far as defrauding SS, the benefits drawn from SS are nowhere near the amount of HUGE MONIES collected on deceased numbers being used by illegals. That's the reason that for years no one would address the situation. These illegals are probably the reason that program is still alive. And this government knows that this money will never be reembursed. I'm thinking that's a little criminal too.
Anyway, I like the fact that we can get up here and just talk about this, it is still one of our rights for now:p
This is fact. You enlist in the armed services and they accept you with the mutual and full understanding that you are here illegal, when your stint is finished, you go right to the front of the line. :cool:
post #17 of 28
All, did you know that the National Guard has been patrolling the border for years and years? I was trained to do so in the late 80's. I can't tell you what the task force's name is due to National Security concerns. But, there are two divisions of this task force. One is counter-drug operations. The other is more of a military police action on the border. The government just decided to beef the operation up that's all.
Dale Angelo Iannello
Wanna be Pastry Chef
Dale Angelo Iannello
Wanna be Pastry Chef
post #18 of 28
I have heard there is a large number of Chinese coming over the border too. Is that correct?
post #19 of 28
Diane, there are some being smuggled in by ship, but not in huge numbers. I think most end up in coastal cities such as New York, Los Angeles, etc.

Whatever solution is found, it must be humane and decent. My faith urges me to "be kind to the stranger because you were a stranger in the land of Egypt, and you know what it means to be a stranger." (from somewhere in Exodus and a few other places in the Bible) Somehow we must balance the needs of immigrants with all the other issues: security, human rights/humanitarianism, economics, the public good.

I'd be interested to hear what Europeans among us here think of the American immigration situation. European countries and the UK have had mixed success as well.

Moderator Emerita, Welcome Forum
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
Moderator Emerita, Welcome Forum
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
post #20 of 28
"Whatever solution is found, it must be humane and decent. My faith urges me to "be kind to the stranger because you were a stranger in the land of Egypt, and you know what it means to be a stranger." (from somewhere in Exodus and a few other places in the Bible) Somehow we must balance the needs of immigrants with all the other issues: security, human rights/humanitarianism, economics, the public good."

Really well said mezzaluna.

post #21 of 28
Bravo Panini,
you hit the nail on the head. All the undocumented tax
and social security coming in to the federal and state goverment.
All the fake numbers. Do restaruants get this money back if
the numbers don't match or exist. Absolutely not. At worst,
the whole thing is a wash for the USA. This issue is not
about Chinese, Korean, or any other foreign national. It is about
MEXICANS. What we don't realize is how integrated they have
become within the more basic labor force. It is less expensive
to let them keep coming. There is no answer. We clearly take
advantage of their financial and legal status and they in turn take
advantage of our public health and school systems to name but a
few. If we worry about schools and public health systems, make
it so they can't take advantage of them. This is a wave to big to
even try to stop. You may as well learn to swim. By the way,
only the first sentence is for you Panini.
post #22 of 28
regarding the social security fraud of illegal immigrants is a big deal. At least to me and others in my area. It's not uncommon for someone who got laid off of work (thru the trades) to be denied unemployment because an illegal immigrant is already drawing off their social security number.

Why is it sometimes ok for some people to commit crimes? A greater good? how convenient :o Just because I love thy neighbor doesn't mean I think he/she should get away with tax evasion (or???). If they were a good neighbor...I'll miss them when they're doing the time they may deserve.

ok...back to being quiet :o but it's oh so hard ;)

regards all>>>

post #23 of 28
LOL GF, 'tis hard isn't it. As you will know, NZ is a recently settled land, although that is open to active debate. The Maoris came in the 1400s, killed off the Moriori, the Terehu,and others. When I was a child quite a few Maori had red hair, so there was obviously intermarriage. The next wave was the Europeans, and after the war, Dutch, German, Polish, Yugoslavians, english. They were followed by the Pacific Islanders in the 60s and 70s, and the 90s brought the Asians. There seems to always have been Chinese here, Some families have been here longer than mine, and my kids are 7th generation.

The thing I object to is those who would come and change the nature of the society. Wanting and taking the benefits thereof, and not contributing but taking so so much. TB is re-established here again, and so on. By 'nature of society' I mean objecting to public Xmas celebrations and suchlike.
post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 
C'mon don't be quiet. I want to learn everything about the subject. Tell me again how the fraud is working in reverse, to block someone from receiving their benefits. I would think it would be a drop-kick to apprehend someone using anothers number to collect.
for me, I'm referring to all the illegals who submitt SS cards of dead persons and pay taxes their whole life and don't draw anything back. A majority don't file yearly for their refundI haven't heard anything about the reverse like you stated.
GF, tax evasion is a crime! But the situation here in Texas is that the crime is being committed by the employers by paying these people 'off the books' so he or she does not have to match. I match every dollar paid by my employees except for the Federal tax. I match the SS, medicare. So this is why the employers are doing this. If I did this, I would realize thousands of free and clear money every year. THE BIGGEST CRIME IS TO DEDUCT TAXES FROM THESE PEOPLE AND THEN DON'T FILE ON THEM. SO NOT ONLY DO THEY NOT MATCH, BUT THEY POCKET THE MONIES THEY COLLECT. I think those rat bas//// should be sent to Mexico with a hundred dollars and no return.
Paninez:D .
post #25 of 28
from what I've seen most of the illegal workforce out there are
working on ss cards with fake numbers. These numbers are non
existent in ss administration. Of course some do happen to be
existing numbers, but, if they don't match the name, they will
not work for more than a year. I have not figured it out, but,
if you do have a ss card and two or more bits of information match,
then the ss admin lets the number continue to work. That means
no notice at the end of the year requesting additional information on
card holder. I was fine with the loose system. The problem now is
the contractors who are popping up acting as staffing companies.
They pocket the money and take advantage of the mexican worker
who recieves about 70 to 80% of the original wage. In construction
the staffing companies are also doing something called a "caja de oros"
bad spelling, box of gold, a savings plan, which they end up keeping
20 to 30% of the time. These contractors simply lower the wage of
the Mexican employee making it cheaper for the employer, but, sapping
a little of the motivation of the workers because of lower wages. As
far as people not being able to recieve benifits because of illegal use
of a retired persons ss card, everyone needs to monitor their personal
information these days, its the sad truth. You should be able to track
it on a yearly basis simply by looking at your statement from the ss
admin. As for sending someone to Mexico out of anger, Its not that
bad a place. I think that eventually it will become part of the U.S.,
in a limited way. Blocking the border is not the answer. Guest worker
programs are not the answer. The sad truth is that we are looking for
first generation Mexican workers to take common labor jobs at a low
price, while still posessing some semblance of work ethic. They are
not taking jobs from any specific segment of society here. Who in there
right mind would collect chickens, sew garments, or pick apples or tomatoes.
Sadly no one here. Acceptance is key. The sad thing is that the people
exploiting Mexicans here in the U.S. are Mexicans. Its a dog eat dog
world, though. Like I said. "No answer at this time". Did you guys realize
that Mexicans cannot just do it the right way and get a work permit.
Did you think it was free? Just fill out the paper work. You have to pay
for an appointment with a credit card! Then you may not even get to
sit for the appointment after riding the bus for 6 or 7 hours. Did you think
it wasn't corrupt thier? Did you think every state in the U.S. did not have
corrupt State Patrols? Did you think that our actual "State Patrol" wasn't
selling, yes selling, drivers licenses for hundreds of dollars apeice? Did you
think Mortgage companies weren't issuing Mortgages to illegal aliens all the
while laughing to the bank. Did you not think that our own policeman in cities
across the country aren't stealing money directly from illegals, right out of
thier wallets, at phony traffic stops? Boy! I really went a little to far with this reply I think. Its just a sad situation and no one from mainstream U.S.
seems to see whats really happening. At the least, lets look at people less
fortunate and perhaps less educated in our way, at least, as hour charges.
A group of people we should try to take care of and cultivate.
post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
I don't want anyone to think that I am in any way, comfortable with anyone who breaks the law in this country. I'm not for amnisty either. I just feel that you can't profile something like this. If you're going to go after someone or some group, then you better make sure that everyone is invited to the party. I understand the Mexican people are the biggest group. BUT, while your spending millions of dollars of my money, make it fare. We have one of the top engineering schools here. The student population is probably 70% from outside this country. I will guarenty you the only a small percentage of those students return to their home countries after finishing school and their visa is up. I think we need to throw a measily million to address that issue.
There is such a revolving door at our border I'm not so sure that all the immigrants know it's illegal.
The pricing structure varies from 2000. which will involve a few risks to 6000. to be flow right in with propper papers.
I know I sound very pro-illegal Mexicans, but I'm really not. I just can't stand targeting a specific group. Target the whole issue. This current party is notorious for doing this.
post #27 of 28
Well said Pan,
I am pro mexican. They are a necessity now. You can't go back.
There are no people that will do the jobs they do. I don't mean to
single out a specific group, but, its really the only group that has any
weight. All the others combined don't come close to being able to effect
the american public. Sadly, it will take chicken at $12 a pound and a
major shortage of tomatoes, skyrocketing construction costs, etc.
But, on the bright side, we could just start importing all the things that
are high cost. From Mexico and other third world south american countries.
I am being a real stick in the mud on this one. Sorry Pan. It hits a little
close to home. The world is really going to change in the next 15 years.
I doubt we will recognize it.
post #28 of 28
I am sure you are right even stephen. the world will be unrecognisable in 15 years, if, indeed, it takes that long. I live in Auckland. With the influx of Pacific Islands in th 60s everyone moaned and carried on, but life carried on. Crime rates rose but I think they did every where. Now with the arrival of the Asians/Indians, life goes on. The middle easterners too. This city has become more interesting with the new restaurants, funny little shops. At my sons graduations, he took a double degree, fully two thirds of the gratuates were Asian. And the fact was evident in the traditional parade up queen street. We have our scams to of course, mail order brides and so on.
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