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Respect!

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Is it my imagination, or have the younger, genX, chef lost all respect for the older chefs?
I intoduced myself to younger chefs on numerous occasions and get absolutely no vibe or respect. They are so wrapped, in this fast paced, competitive race, they have no time to communicate. Am I just feeling old?
I met a chef that was dressed for holloween in some sort of black ninja garb.
He mentioned that he never visits Sprouts (a new organic store) but his sous f'd up and he was buying his turnips and heading back to fire him. He seemed just so out of controll.
Sorry for the rant
pan
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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post #2 of 27
No apology necessary Pan. Noticed this too. Unfortunately it's not just limited being a Chef. Everything has to be so much of an "In your face competition" or "what am I gonna get out of it" Most've forgotten about discretion and humility. If you ask me too many think they deserve and never learned that you have to earn. Hence I don't get it either so I must be getting old too. Only one thing left to do... Road trip :beer:
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
Old School, you're right.
When i first saw this chef today, I said to myself, hmm Eastern in his thinking. Since I was 14 in NYC I have tried to practice Patience, Honesty, Humility, and Sincer\ety. When he exploded with the sous thing I guess I was a little taken back.
Love your site!!!!!
pan
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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post #4 of 27
During my short 2 1/2 semesters of teaching science to public high school students, I was assaulted 3 times. I quit after being called a stupid mother f*cker by some unruly 11th grader. I haven't the time for this stuff and the younger generations really suck when it comes to respecting older people.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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post #5 of 27
Yes.
And unfortunately employers seem impressed by them.
And unimpressed by the experience of older chefs.

I guess they like losing money.
post #6 of 27
I don't know, it IS a very comptetitive world out there. On the one hand the Ninja- dressed Chef didn't outright verbally assault you, but it did sound like he's completely stressed out.
I've been in that situation many times--feeling like the chinese circus act guy, the guy who's spinning ten plates on broomsticks and running around just to keep all ten plates spinning. I've had many a confrontation with staff who don't understand the concept of respect; No, it doesn't mean love, or to be a push-over.

The ones who refuse to comprehend respect usually get bitten in the butt: Just because you say you got offered a job that pays $11.00/hr more doesn't mean that I will match it, please, by all accounts leave this job to go for it. And then a few months later I see them working p/t for a mega catering co., in a polyester uniform selling $4.00 bottled water on hockey game nights...I smile and wave, they avoid eye contact. Respect from clients is very rare too. My quote too high? You want a discount? Why? Oh, I see, because I'm not Caterer X... After a while I just blow it out and smirk when they call 0two days before the event and I politely decline because I'm booked.

Meh, respect. I give it, but never expect it back, I like surprises...
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #7 of 27

Raised "Old School", but live new wave

Panni...I don't know what youe demos are where you work. I'm a sous at a high volume, up-scale joint and we make our money the hard way...we give 'em what they want. My chef is the owner. When he was 16, he worked on cruise ships and came to the U.S. 13 years ago and opened up a place. He values things like dressing for your job, hard work, and creativity from his boh staff. Sorry to hear you wear side-swiped by that dudes custume choice...let it go. When I go to bar after work (...which is almost every night...) and I see some cat hanging out in his "whites", I think: "What a douchebag!" Again...no respect. All those self-important a-holes who think they are chefs and try to "gather" some self-perceived importance, can go "F" themselves as they are walking off a short dock in cold water!
post #8 of 27
The lack of respect stems mostly from either single or no-parent families. Parental absenteeism gives the kids nothing to learn.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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post #9 of 27
well, i have just gone back into a kitchen after a time, and found i was the oldest one in the resturaunt........... im only 28!..........im not sure your age, however i was trained by older Chefs and they bashed the belief and rightly so, that if you have spend 20 odd years in commercial cookery, you should know a thing or two.......

The smart person will ask and listen to the older chefs, as 99% of the time you can get real gold.

In short, yes respect has been lost, however if it matters i still respect the older chef.
post #10 of 27
Jeff, I see and understand where you're coming from, but I have to wonder if it's not somewhat a function of "our" ages. What I mean is that since time began the "younger generation" has always thought that the older one knows nothing. They're behind the times and don't understand. They are under the impression that because something is new to them, that it's new to everyone. They do not understand the concept of experience and what changes in a person experience alone will bring. So I think "we" have gotten to a point where to the 20 somethings and younger we have graduated to the "old, know nothing stage" and we might as well get out the rockers and sit on the porch. (Can ya believe it?!?:confused: ) I think if you were any other profession and something similar happened you would find the same reaction. It's human nature. I think.
My latest musical venture!
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My latest musical venture!
http://myspace.com/nikandtheniceguys
 
Also
http://www.myspace.com/popshowband "I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP
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post #11 of 27
Just remember that there ARE eager young culinarians out there, who give respect and don't have attitudes. Few and far between maybe, but we are out there.
post #12 of 27

Heck NO!!! I absolutely disagree!!!!!!!

My 14yo daughter has pretty much been an only child since age 3 when the EX (I hesitate to call him a 'dad') got into trouble and skipped bail.

She is intelligent, artistic, scolastic, creative, polite, a great cook, and overall a terrific kid (well, she does have this thing about not putting stuff away...) ;) She loves classical music (by choice, not by me), and educational TV programs.

When we took passage back to the US from Sydney on the Oriana she had an entire shipful of elderly Brits completely blown away by how polite and well-spoken she is.

She has NEVER said a swear word of any kind in her life! Seriously. Even when she was younger and understood that the Hoover Dam is not a swear word. It makes her uncomfortable and she feels like there are better ways to express yourself when you're 'pissed off'. (course she won't even say THAT)

BY COMPARISON her two older siblings, 24 and 25 are the worst users/abusers you could imagine. THEY were raised in a 2 parent 'family'. My son is a borderline abusive manipulator, has no morals when it comes to stealing. (Has stolen thousands over the years from me, but it wasn't provable). Neither of them have any respect for anything or anyone, family bonds, values or morals. My oldest daughter is abusive to her kids (she's on her 4th) and is just plain hateful and mean spirited.

The Ex was an overpowering emotionally distant Computer Yoda type. I was the artistic, stay at home mom with an art business on the side.

I suppose in Pleasantville the two parent approach works, but we don't watch black and white TV any more.

My vote is television that's ruining the way kids view their universe and interaction with people. You could argue about using TV as a babysitter but it happens just as often in 2 parent homes as well.


April
(I homeschool BTW)

post #13 of 27
<<The lack of respect stems mostly from either single or no-parent families. Parental absenteeism gives the kids nothing to learn.>>

AprilB:
I should have defined the term "no-parent" as being either zero parents or zero parental influence. But a lot of social ills among kids are attributed to the decline in parental involvement with their children.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #14 of 27
hi, i'm new to this Forum, just want to say hi to everyone,

as for the GenX culinarians, i agree that not that many younger generation understand basics in general,

I MYSELF is a GenX culinarian, i've only been working for 4 years now, and i noticed that not that many of my past coworkers in the kitchen have respect for the older generation chefs. as for me, i love to learn from the older generation because they were CLASSICALLY trained in their specialty, and that's why i have deep respect for them, the genx these days like to make up their own dishes and such, but don't understand the history or basics behind what their chefs are doing, i was very fortunate to work with a few of the best chefs in the US, and i'm still striving for more education from them, genx cooks these days don't realize that they have to FOLLOW before they LEAD. and that just because they went to some culinary school that they think they're a Chef and that they're untouchable, ok, i'll stop babbling now, it's nice to let this out of my system because i'm not able to talk about this to my own coworkers because i think 80% of them are Shoe-makers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #15 of 27

Old???

Very interesting thread... As... I am indeed getting ready for a road trip...
After 40 years in the kitchen, including waaaay back then 3 years of Culinary Schooling in Switzerland, I am taking a slightly different path...
This past year, having been contracted by a new Restaurant to bring it up to par, I have experienced the same thing and for the first time in my life started thinking... "Am I really getting old?"... well... kind of I imagine being almost 59... but can still ride in circles around those "youngsters".
So... to make a long story short... the restaurant is up for sale now... the "yoyo" owner lost his Liquor License twice... I think he even spend sme time in jail... selling intentionnaly to minors and once procrastinating on his paperwork!... So... as I was contemplating a road trip with a purpose and doing some serious writing, I still visited some other restaurants that are in need of some serious "upbringing"... I have always been self employed and my desire has always been to keep it that way... For the first time... never said in the open... and hard to explain... I felt a feeling that I was being passed on because of my age!... maybe the thought that this man will not be able to handle the physical pressure... maybe he will not be able to handle the long hours... I truly did... combined with the fact that I am not cheap... and yes, they are some incredible young Chefs out there... but more affordable...
So, anyhow... the road trip is on... deep down all this is enough... but my Passion has never diminished... and I will be cooking on the road... camping... riding... driving... for whoever I met through an incoming BLOG "The Oasis of my Soul" and friends that I have all over this country!
Looking for the local fare... breakfast and dinner everyday... or just about... I am curious to find out for myself how much I can really do on the road in the open, weather permitting or in my PopUp camper with much less space... I have lived on a Sailboat for 28 years... the space will not be a problem... I even have an oven with me! (8"x8"!!!)... to be used on a burner... stoves and... my food processor... genrator... water filtering... power packs!!!
I actually hope that some of yous... outdoor fans will join me as I will post here where I am!... or even if you needed help in your kitchen in emergency situation I would be happy to jump in... and no... I am not looking at financial rewards!... I just love being in a kitchen!!!
This is my transportation and my buddy Spirit...
Sorry if I "strayed" from the subject of this thread... I wil start a new one soon relevant to my Journey...






Be well... 30 days to departure!

Ara
www.theoasisofmysoul.com

My ongoing Blog... with Spirit!

What one does after 40 years of cooking!!!
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www.theoasisofmysoul.com

My ongoing Blog... with Spirit!

What one does after 40 years of cooking!!!
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post #16 of 27
Bloody kids!!
When I was young, at home you got the wooden spoon, at school the cuts and in the kitchen a "clip around the ear"
Bring back the cane!!:D :D :D
Leading the global ban on cup and spoon measurements in recipes!
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Leading the global ban on cup and spoon measurements in recipes!
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post #17 of 27
People are generating way more kids than they can raise properly. Note the growing prison population.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #18 of 27
Huh! Well, when I was a young apprentice, we got fed boiled gravel, and had to live under the ditch. Mind you we only slept there for 4 hours, the rest of the time we had to work....
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #19 of 27
I bet they made you work in the ditch!!:D
Leading the global ban on cup and spoon measurements in recipes!
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Leading the global ban on cup and spoon measurements in recipes!
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post #20 of 27
As a teacher, I have purposely remained a reader versus a poster because of my involvement with, what I am reading as "this generation." Well, I need to step up at this point. Rather than...

... let's take a look at why rather than stating (over and over and over) that there is a problem. Again, from the High School teacher perspective, I have to tell you that 99.9% of the 'problems' I see in the class stem from the home. Yes, I said it. It is OUR fault. How many parents spend more than 11 seconds working with their offspring discussing their school day, their learning, their understanding of the material presented? How many go beyond the requisite "how was your day?" and settle for the "fine" response? Do you turn off the radio in the car and really discuss issues? Do you teach your children to shake an adult's hand and introduce themselves? How about holding the door? Aren't these all respect issues? (Respect, as defined by Websters: "To hold in high regard the time or posessions of another)

My point is this... the role of teaching respect (and honesty, integrity, self-sacrifice, trustworthy, good character) is ALL of our responsibility. Do you set the expectation for your cooks in the kitchen? Do you swear and act like a raving lunatic? Well, that really sets the bar high, doesn't it? Leading by example is only the start.

Just in case you were wondering, my students will stand if you should happen to walk into our classroom. They will also not speak until you should speak to them. They will wear their ironed, spotless uniforms with pride. Did I mention that they are in a PUBLIC high school? It has nothing to do with me being a miracle-worker. It has to do with the role the parents and OTHER adults play in their lives. So, we can blame, we can point fingers or we can all take responsibility. Think about that when you curse-out somebody for driving too slowly in front of you; what kind of an example of respect are you for those around you?

Invention, my dear friends, is ninety-three percent perspiration, six percent electricity, four percent evaporation, and two percent butterscotch ripple

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Invention, my dear friends, is ninety-three percent perspiration, six percent electricity, four percent evaporation, and two percent butterscotch ripple

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post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Jim,
You absolutely right. I ran this by my wife and she made a good point. She said that I was not feeling old. She expressed that I react to this type of non-respect more because we have values. She's right, and you hit it on the head. We close the bakery every day a 3 to be in the carpool lane. Have 3 solid hours of quiet family time, then dinner and homework. We fortunately do not have the school system you have ( Let's see, the Presidents home state, I think we are next to last of the worst shhools in the US). This is not a knock on the school system, our state has continually lowered the bar over the years, our teachers have become babysitters. We may have over compensated, our son is taught by Monks. LOL
pan
I'm thinking, the only time I get sideways at work is when there is a lack of
respect. Even as small as not putting the toilet lid down when finished.
FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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FOR YEARS I LIVED TO WORK! NOW I WORK TO LIVE!
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post #22 of 27
Panini:

Having taught in the Georgia public school system for only 2 1/2 semesters I felt that as I science teacher I was there to baby sit a bunch of undisciplined teenagers save for a very very few. And my hands were tied when it came to disciplinary issues and I was asked by the department chairperson at some district in south GA to pass some students even though they failed miserably. Go figure. And now I work as a correctional officer! HA! Better opportunities exist in law enforcement these days.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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post #23 of 27
Respect, you have to give it to get it. Its not something just given , it is earned. I have worked for those older chefs who treat everyone under them like subhumans, and expect everyone to bow to them because they are the "chef". The respect thing is reciprocal. If you treat someone disrespectfully, expect it back.
My life, my choice.....
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My life, my choice.....
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post #24 of 27
I can agree with the fact that the younger generation (which unfortunately is mine...) has very little respect for the older/wiser/more experienced. If there's one thing I've learned and will take to the grave is that when it comes to someone more experienced: Listen, and listen well. If you meet somebody who will forget more than you're ever going to learn, don't go lookin that gift horse in the mouth.

One more tidbit before I disappear from the forums for another week or two:
"Never disregard anyone, you never know what they might end up teaching you."
post #25 of 27
Listening is indeed the key... I remember when in Culinary School we had this elderly retired Chef/Teacher... almost 40 years ago now, he was already in his 80's!... I still remember his name, Mr Ziegler!... The School was filled with brats, 150 students from 55 countries... all rich kids... (Switzerland), I was the only one that listenened to this man, specially after Class as he was kind of slow taking off... what a source of knowledge he was! Awesome man... learned all the "things" you will never learn in a book!!!
On another note regarding respect, as I just finished a 9 months Contract with an Atlanta Downtown Restaurant, I have never in my 37 years working met two gentleman from Burkina Faso, Africa, with as much respect as they had!... Jean and Michael will remain friends for life (26 and 27, their age respectively). The Pride (capital P...), the Respect (capital R...), the Workmanship (Capital W...) were just incredible... God forbid that I spilled something and went for the mop... they would run and grab it off my hands... I had to... fight my way... to stay busy sometimes on slow days!... they would try to stay ahead of the workload... it has been till today as I will always stay in touch with them... "Yes Sir...No Sir..."
And WHY??? UPBRINGING!!!... PARENTS... VALUES... none of this TV and Internet "crap" 24/7 digging into their minds!!! And of course... not to praise myself... I treated them with outmost respect too...
It is just getting to be a thing of the past... what a shame...
Be well... Ara
www.theoasisofmysoul.com

My ongoing Blog... with Spirit!

What one does after 40 years of cooking!!!
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www.theoasisofmysoul.com

My ongoing Blog... with Spirit!

What one does after 40 years of cooking!!!
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post #26 of 27
Blade55440:

Respect THEM because THEY may be your future customers as well. Oh how I long for the simplicity of the Leave It to Beaver days. <;^P

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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post #27 of 27
As a younger chef in the making, I show nothing but the utmost of respect to any chef I have the pleasure to work with.

On a related note, I am surprised though at how young today's generation of Chefs are though. My Exec. Chef is 29, Sous is 26, Asst. Sous is 21. This is for a Marriott hotel, very extended banquet and restaurant operation, this is no small show they are running either

I have noticed though the arrogance of the younger generation of cooks/chefs, especially those that I went to culinary school with and they thought culinary school was going to make them a Chef.
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