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whats difference between cacao powder and cocoa powder - Page 3

post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Graham View Post
 


Also i have a package of cacao powder in my home that says it wasn't processed above 107 degrees making it better for you!

Labelling and packaging have leeway for marketing and also truth, again for the USA., For example. Better and Best. Best on a label, you have to be able to back up with some facts and testing, often of a minor or trivial thing. Better, you don't. Better is subjective for labeling purposes and essentially meaningless. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatch View Post
 

Labelling and packaging have leeway for marketing and also truth, again for the USA.

Correct!

one should never trust what a manufacturer says on their label as being entirely truthful.

I've dealt with label legalities in Canada and USA. A food regulation lawyer once told me: "Because a food label exist in the retail market does not make any of it's claim legal"

 

The Canadian and American FDA are reactive regulatory bodies not proactive meaning a food manufacturer is left on their own to make their label legal according to the existing regulations. The FDA will intervene if there is a complaint from the consumer/marketplace at which point they will scrutinize the product in question.

 

I wonder what cocoa manufacturer/brand name claims it's not process above 107F?

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #63 of 88

My cacao powder is grown and processed in India...I buy it from vita cost, they sell products that are truly good for you and benefit your health.

post #64 of 88

Well...I have studied this for many years and have interned with many doctors who agree with what I just said...so maybe you should do more research and find some health courses to take. God Bless!

post #65 of 88

Please don't make this personal.

I have commented on wording/semantics and have not questioned your personal beliefs, knowledge, life choices or experience.

 

Health practitioners, nutritionist, naturopaths and dietitians often enhance the benefit of foods by claiming they contain "enzymes" which help us digest and be more healthy but that is false.  Medical doctors are not biochemist and may get confused on what an enzyme is.

Even if a food contained enzymes (which some do) they are deactivated (denatured) by our stomach acids. Not many enzymes (if any) can survive a ph of between 1 & 2.

 

(plant) Foods are compromised of many many many other healthy components like polyphenols, anthocyanins, antioxidants, good fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.. that survive the digestion trip but not enzymes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that cacao is a great healthy superfood for its antioxidant content.

 

Since you researched this, please name me an enzyme that helps in our digestion so that I can research it myself as you proposed.

 

 

I found this cocoa powder in the website you named but it does not say anything about not being processed above 107F

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-organic-cacao-powder-non-gmo

Cacao (pronounced kuh-COW)—not to be confused with cocoa—is a bean-like seed, collected from the Theobroma cacao tree, a type of evergreen that grows in tropical regions throughout the world. It’s naturally rich in antioxidants, vitamins, minerals (especially magnesium and iron), fiber and other good-for-you nutrients you’d expect from one of nature’s most exquisite plant foods.Unlike cocoa, powdered cacao is chocolate in the raw. It’s not roasted, chemically treated or sugared up for overly sweet taste.

 

Clearly they are confusing Cocoa as being the hot chocolate mix and cacao as being the pure powder.

 

Luc H.

 

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #66 of 88

I thought all cacao/cocoa was roasted as part of processing.

 

Step 2:  http://www.icco.org/about-cocoa/processing-cocoa.html

 

Like coffee, I wouldn't expect it to be very tasty if it were not roasted.

post #67 of 88


 You did make this personal by suggesting that naturopaths like myself lie about food and we don't... if you have nothing good to say you have no right to be on here judging and make statements that you have NO knowledge of. Fruits, vegetables, meats all have certain digestive enzymes to help break these nutrients inside of them. Why else would they begin to go bad? Its the digestive enzymes inside breaking them down. 

amlase, protease, lipase are digestive enzymes along with papain, pepsin, etc. What I was saying was actually take a course in nutrition and you will learn the truth. Naturopaths (at least ones like me and my doctor/mentor) are scientists and we are always learning and studying. This is one thing that has never changed about food; there are digestive enzymes in them and they help break down their nutrients. I'm down with this if you want to be naive as Gods Word says his people will become and not know the truth then that's your problem. I have taken so many courses with books written by M.D.s they say there are digestive enzymes in food and the importance of raw food. I have a Doctor degree and 2 masters. 

 

Cacao isn't as good as you think it is either, but cocoa is even worse, if I eat cocoa I get a headache because of a magnesium depletion, on the other hand, I can eat Cacao because the magnesium level is higher, almost canceling out the caffeine content...it is high in magnesium because of the caffeine content it has....caffeine depletes our magnesium levels and can make us deficient. I know this from my studies and from personal experience. Coffee is the worse one about depleting us! 

post #68 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
 

I thought all cacao/cocoa was roasted as part of processing.

 

Step 2:  http://www.icco.org/about-cocoa/processing-cocoa.html

 

Like coffee, I wouldn't expect it to be very tasty if it were not roasted.


my point exactly.

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #69 of 88

A quick web search of cocoa and digestive enzymes actually yields the following: that cocoa contain digestive enzyme inhibitors.

http://realrawfood.com/cacao-food-gods

http://envirohealthtech.com/cacao.htm

 

a more scientific version:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113527/

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #70 of 88

this also is interesting:

Cacao beans contain exceptionally high levels of phytic acid. The level is highest in raw unfermented cocoa beans and a little lower in processed chocolate. Phytates are anti-nutrients that bind to the minerals you consume (particularly magnesium, zinc and copper) and make them unavailable to your body. Phytates also decrease the activity of digestive enzymes like amylase, pepsin and trypsin. Weak digestion is associated with nutrient deficiencies, leaky gut, inflammation of the colon, and autoimmune disorders.

http://www.growyouthful.com/tips/cacao-chocolate-cocoa.php

 

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc_H View Post

Not many enzymes (if any) can survive a ph of between 1 & 2.

 

Luc H.

 

Actually one very well known enzyme can survive in our stomach, our very own, pepsin which degrades proteins hence indiscriminately breaks down enzymes found in food.  It is a food safety mechanism to prevent harmful activated proteins during digestion.

 

(I was just checking my facts)

Luc H.

I eat science everyday, do you?
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post #72 of 88

Sarah, I'm sorry you feel attacked. While I do disagree with some of what you posted, I'd like to see some source materials for the things you've stated. That's how such a discussion works. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #73 of 88

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's illness and was wondering if you all are aware that cancer cells have an affinity for eating all kinds of sugars; it promotes their health and well being.  Have you researched safe sugar alternatives, too?

post #74 of 88

.and here is my reasoning and experience of 15 years in the cocoa business, and as a chemical engineer.

Cocoa powder and cacao powder is the same.
What is considered "raw" cacao is suppose to be a cocoa powder that has been in a process that never exceeded 110 degrees Fahrenheit...which is already an almost impossible scenario, since cocoa beans are grown in the Equator, and you may exceed that temperature while drying in the patio under the sun covered with black linens (to heat it up and allow the fermentation of the bean)....and yes, you need to dry them, otherwise they will rotten in a few days, and the shell will be too difficult to peel off.

Back to cocoa powder....
ALL cocoa powder comes from the cocoa bean, which without the shell is called cocoa nib (a.k.a. cacao nib). The first step is grinding of the nib (which again, when you grind something to such small particle size you will create a lot of friction with -that's right - heat!). That will give you the cocoa/cacao paste (a.k.a. cacao mass or liquor), which has about 50 to 56% fat (cocoa butter) in it...and ALL cocoa powders have to go through that stage.

Next stage is to take some of that butter away, which the raw community claims can be done through "cold pressing". For any that don't understand that term, cold pressing is done with oils like olive oil to preserve the oil almost intact by cooling the press plates while applying pressure (pressure generates heat, therefore it needs to be cooled). But here is a reminder, olive oil is liquid in room temperature, cocoa butter is SOLID, and it STARTS melting at about 100 degrees Fahrenheit ... so, you cannot control and cool it to a point where it will be still in a solid phase, because it cannot be pressed and "flow" out.

Last operation is to grind the solids left in the press, again - heat...and there is your cocoa powder or cacao powder... you tell me if you call it "raw", a term not defined by the FDA for cocoa, and that can be used by anyone just to sell the cocoa to a much higher price. Maybe that is why bigger, more serious companies don't have this product, since they do not want to be liable for false advertising...

Regarding "Raw" cocoa nibs or cocoa beans...yes, that is possible, and the only concern is the high bacteriological plate count... but how much you want to train your immune system is up to each individual. And yes, the less manipulated the cocoa, the more polyphenols and healthy chemicals you will obtain from it.

There is also a difference between alkalized or ducthed powders, and the natural ones (which do not contain any potassium carbonate), being the second ones the ones containing more of the healthy properties (antioxidants). But that is totally different than claiming a "raw" cocoa powder.

So, that is my explanation, and again, I respect anyone's opinion on what they want to eat or how they want to consume it. I just disagree with misleading the general public just to make juicy profits.

post #75 of 88


thank you cocoa lady I was researching this subject just today I put cocoa powder in a new health food recipe and my daughter started in how it was different she is a genius in real life so can't wait to show this too her. lol

post #76 of 88
I think we need to put the whole thing into context:

Cocoa powder is a by-product of cocoa butter

The coco bean contains well over 52% cocoa butter. When chocolate is made, whole beans are nibbed, roasted, and crushed. This results in cocoa mass, also called cocoa liquor. This is very thick and stodgy. It needs to be thinned out, and what Rudolphe Lindt discovered back in the late 1870's was to add more cocoa butter to it. All modern chocolates and couvertures contain extra cocoa butter.

Cocoa butter, by itself has very little flavour, so it makes no sense to extract butter from the best beans. Dutching was invented over 200 years ago by Van Houten as a means to make inferior beans consumable. Thus, beans that were harvested too early, fermented not long enough, or just poor quality in general, are treated with alkalai. This is usually the case for beans destined for cocoa butter. Dont forget, cocoa butter is a valuable commodity and finds its way into many skin creams, suntan lotions and pharmaceutical purposes as well, normally sold to these companies for more than the price of chocolate itself.

All countries--including the U.S--. are required by law to state if chocolate or cocoa products are treated with alkali on the label. There are many European cocao powders that state this, many famous big name ones too, but no European chocolate that I'm aware of- not even the Ikea chocolate is dutched.. Hershey, on the other hand, likes to brag about it, proudly stating in big bold letters on their chocolate packaging that their chocolate is "Dutched".......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #77 of 88

Great comments from all but frankly still not sure what is best to eat for health.

I found the clip below so may go that way.  Is there a discount source to buy what she ate.

 

The world's oldest human being to have ever lived (that was officially documented) was Jeanne Louise Calment of France. She lived to be 122 and many say that one of her secrets to longevity was her consumption of 2.5 pounds of bitter dark chocolate a week. The third "official" oldest person ever to have lived was Sarah Knauss, who also regularly enjoyed the health benefits of chocolate, although not in as large quantities as Jeanne

post #78 of 88

What to eat best for health?

Everything in moderation

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post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanksterr View Post
 

The world's oldest human being to have ever lived (that was officially documented) was Jeanne Louise Calment of France. She lived to be 122 and many say that one of her secrets to longevity was her consumption of 2.5 pounds of bitter dark chocolate a week.


She also smoked cigarettes every day. Maybe that was her secret?

post #80 of 88

White chocolate ingredients

 Cocoa butter, 16 ounces
• Milk solids (powder), 14 ounces 
• Soy lecithin, 1 teaspoon
• Sugar, powdered, 14 ounces

 

We do not add chocolate liquor and chocolate solids which add bitter taste as in dark chocolate.

 

Dark chocolate ingredients

• 2 cups of cocoa powder
• 1 cup of water
• Cocoa butter to taste 
• Sugar to taste

What’s the difference between dark and milk chocolate? Namely, it’s a matter of  cacao content, color and taste.

Dark chocolate has a percentage of cocoa solids (cocoa liquor) twice as high as that of milk chocolate, while in milk chocolate about 1/3 is milk powder or condensed milk.

Dark chocolate usually has a dark brown color, while milk chocolate is light brown. Most often dark chocolate comes with about 65%  cocoa products, while milk chocolate has about 20-25%.

post #81 of 88
Uhhhh..... Are you telling me that you "make" chocolate with cocoa powder, water, and "cocoa butter to taste"? And you can temper this, mold it? Are you telling me that you add "1teaspoon" of soy lecethin to "make" white chocolate? Do you know what the function is of soy lecethin? Do you know in what proportions it is added? In all my years of working with chocolate, I 've never heard such tosh....
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post #82 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Uhhhh..... Are you telling me that you "make" chocolate with cocoa powder, water, and "cocoa butter to taste"? And you can temper this, mold it? Are you telling me that you add "1teaspoon" of soy lecethin to "make" white chocolate? Do you know what the function is of soy lecethin? Do you know in what proportions it is added? In all my years of working with chocolate, I 've never heard such tosh....


Apparently these "recipes" were just copy-pasted from the following website: http://www.diethealthclub.com/chocolate/chocolate-ingredients.html

post #83 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamavapollard View Post
 

 

What’s the difference between dark and milk chocolate? Namely, it’s a matter of  cacao content, color and taste.

 

Eh....no.  The difference is about 35% milk powder.(or over 1/3 the total weight)   Other differences are:

A lower melting point than chocolate

A different tempering curve than chocolate

A shorter shelf life.

A milder taste

Not good for lactose intolerant customers 

 

One thing Iearned about chocolate, when I was about 5 yrs old is, that there is a "world standard" for chocolate, and then there is the "American standard" for chocolate.  Just like there is day and night, heaven and hell, black and white.  The two are not comparable.

 

With the world standard, chocolate is chocolate.  If it contains any--even 1% dairy, it is then referred to as "milk chocolate".  Makes a whole lotta sense.

 

With the American standard, any "dreck" containing a minimum of 35% cocoa content can be called "Semi Sweet" ,"Bittersweet", or "Dark chocolate". Yes, you can throw in milk powder, yes you can throw in paraffin too, don't worry, you're protected by the law......  World standard is 55% cocoa content for "Chocolate", with nothing other than cocoa, sugar, vanilla, and soy lecithin.

 

American standard for "milk chocolate" is a minimum of15% cocoa content.  World standard is 30%

 

American standard for "Sweet chocolate" is 10% cocoa content.  There is no world standard for this dreck, even the stuff at Ikea is better than that

 

But what is this soy lecithin?  And what is its purpose?

 

Normally, soy lecithin is used as an emulsifier.  But you can't emulsify chocolate.  To emulsify, you need a fat phase, and you need a water phase.  Chocolate (including milk and white) contains no water.  Well.... amounts of under 1/2 of 1% (0.05%) are tolerated.  Which probably explains why dark chocolate has a shelf life of well over 3 years, no refrigeration required. Chocolate is NOT an emulsification, but rather a partial suspension of solids in fat.

 

So what does soy lecithin do, if it doesn't emulsify?

 

In small amounts, it "thins out" the chocolate, enabling easier molding, dipping, and pouring.  You can achieve the same effect by adding more cocoa butter, but small quantities of lecithin will do the same.

 

How much?

Usually 1/2 of 1% or o.o5%.  It(lecithin) is usually the last or second last ingredient on the list.

 

Cocoa butter by itself has no taste, or rather about as much taste as sunflower oil, can't really add this "to taste"

 

Dark chocolate is not bitter.  Angustura bitters are bitter, bitter melon is bitter, but dark chocolate is not bitter.  Unsweetened, yes, bitter----no.

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post #84 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post
Cocoa butter by itself has no taste, or rather about as much taste as sunflower oil, can't really add this "to taste"


I have a jar of cocoa butter (100%) I bought for my skin. I tasted it, and to me it has a taste. Subtle, but much better taste than sunflower oil. You can taste the chocolate flavor there. The other day I walked into the living room and told my wife: Wow it smells so good, it smells of chocolate here! And sure enough, she had used cocoa butter on her skin.

post #85 of 88

Ah!  You got the unrefined cocoa butter, and yes, it does have some taste.  Most of the cocoa butter used in confectionary is refined and de-odourized.

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post #86 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post
 

Ah!  You got the unrefined cocoa butter, and yes, it does have some taste.  Most of the cocoa butter used in confectionary is refined and de-odourized.


Wow, that's too bad! I assume they do that so it doesn't spoil during storage? Does better quality chocolate use unrefined cocoa butter?

post #87 of 88
Most unrefined cocoa butters have an "odour" that can be quite unpleasant. Alot of the unrefined c.b is from poorly fermented beans. Since fats absorb odours, the unrefined cocoa butter will transfer its odour to whatever other fats (dairy, other cocoa products) are around it. Thats the reason c.b. is refined, it'll keep for years at room temp without any issues.

Now, taste the stuff. Odour is one thing, but taste it. Its bland. Why do you think white chocolate has no chocolate flavour?
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post #88 of 88

Thanks for all the information @foodpump , much appreciated!

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