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Faster Stock?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
We are having a little debate here and I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.

We have very limited space here but turn quite a large number of guests. So, the problem is the amount of stock we go through, where to store it and how to store it. I was talking to my cooks about this and suggested that perhaps we should start reducing out veggie and chicken stocks to glace in order to save space in the freezer - which is simply overflowing - and one of them suggested that instead we start with three times as much veggies and bones to the same amount of water for a more concentrated stock. Now, my initial response was that it would not work because the amount of water needs to be such that through osmosis the there is enough liquid to accept the transfer of material from the veg and protein. Being a bit of a science geek he pointed out that - particularly in the case of veggie stock - the bulk of the material is principally water and therefor the transference is almost equal. I found myself responding to saying that centuries of French technique could not be wrong, but I feel silly in this answer and am confused by the science behind why increasing the veg and protein will not work. Anyone with a better grip on basic science got an answer for me? I am a bit flummoxed and am feeling unable to give my cook a satisfactoy answer.
post #2 of 9
its mostly water... osmosis is the action of a solution equalising itself

if you have 2 solutions 1 is pure water the other is pure sugar if you allow them to osmose you will end up with 2 solutions at 50/50

if you had 1 at 75% water 25% sugar and 1 at 75% sugar 25% water again you would result in 50/50

unless the amount of proteins and flavours or whatever it is exactly your trying to get to stay in the water (v tired to think hard) is already at the maximum possible amount that the water can have dissolved in it or mixed with blended with whatever the correct term (edit: the specific capacitance) then sure you can add more

what im saying is that its unlikely that adding more would fail... try it on a smaller batch... if it works, great, if not at least you know for sure!
post #3 of 9

faster stock

I'm no pro, but make a lot of stock. Lately I've been doubling or tripling the amount of veggies and bones and cooking it harder insteady of the long "lazy boil". You do have to skim like **** for a while but the result works just fine, I think. It seems to me that it makes sense to start with a more concentrated solution to begin with than to reduce a huge volume of a dilute one. And it takes less gas. There may be some good reason for the ratios passed down from the F country but I say give it a try. Vive empiricism! I would love to hear what you find.
post #4 of 9
I think glaces of chicken and veal are the way to go, if, you are
finishing dishes with a pan sauce. If you are using a white or light
chicken stock, then you probably don't want to reduce it to a glace
because of color. Your talking about a pretty common problem. Spend
the time or spend the money. Boneworks, provimi, and culinairte make
super demi glaces. Duck, Chicken, Veal, and Lamb. They are hard to
beat in certain situations. I think, if you must produce in house, then
just produce every two days if you need to. You end up spending more
time and money finding ways around the obvious task at hand. Perhaps
modify your menu. Many are going for the lighter cuisine. Less butter
sauces, and heavy reductions. The days of sticky demi glace are numbered,
but, I still respect the product. I have found that italian style salsa verdes,
a puree of capers, parsely, basil, anchovies, and olive oil have been just
as popular for beef and lamb. We also make our own steak sauce as well.
We do however make a chicken glace from chicken wings. Browning them,
deglazing, reducing, browning again, deglazing again, and over and over.
I use large Rondeau repeating the process 5 times then adding the mirepoix
during the last cycle. The result is a beautiful chicken demi, that rivals
any veal demi. Good luck, I too, have worked in extremely spacially challenged facilities with the same needs.
post #5 of 9
I am like Slo Ted, not a pro, but I always make my own stock. I have for years. If you are reducing to glace, I can not think of anything :( else you can do other than get more freezer space.
Preparing a fine meal with quality ingredients is the most practical way we show our love. How we plate shows the depth of our caring.
Preparing a fine meal with quality ingredients is the most practical way we show our love. How we plate shows the depth of our caring.
post #6 of 9
You could change your menu so you use only two types of stock.

Uhm... you might not like this suggestion.

1) Buy provimi

2) Fortify

What's the biggest pressure cooker out there? :D
post #7 of 9
I think those ones they cook agave in down mexico way!
post #8 of 9
Seriously, take this pressure cooker thing, 23qt or let's say 5 gallons.


Put in maybe 12-13lbs of veal bones. Fill it with water and cook it for 3-4 hours. Voila! Veal glace! Could that work?
post #9 of 9

The logic is sound but....

...my question is how you would have so much room available in your pot that you could fit 3 times as much into the same amount of water.

Typically (and I by no means consider myself an expert) if I were to throw in 3 times as much stock material into the pot but only used the previous amount of water the bones would not be covered by the water. I usually only cover the stock material with a few inches of water. You could chop everything up into smaller bits to get what you could in but the ratio sounds a bit much, I suppose a tall skinny pot .....

In principal however, as long as you can cover the bones with the water the theory is sound from a scientific standpoint as the water would have to be 'sludge' before it would be at such a concentration as to no longer extract collagens .

I have to admit however that I have a bias against creating a 'stronger stock' and then diluting for service, never seems to retain the same richness on the palate....whereas a fully reduced glace on the other hand does when diluted. Have no idea why, and the statement holds no logic that I can discern...but my tongue doesn't seem to care about logic.

One question for the earlier poster who 'cooks it harder vs the slow boil', I've always ended up with cloudy stock when one of my pots has gotten away from me into a full boil due to the solids breaking up into particulate matter. Even with a lot of frantic skimming how do you keep this from happening?


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