Glad I don't...

It's amazing how I get the news on Chef Talk now! So sad to hear this, it's one of the reasons that I am homeschooling my son.......
I'll go catch the news : (

Dear Friends:

I am suddened too by the this violent crime. It seems that we have not learned anything from our past mistakes. The human race keeps failing its children. I can't even begin to imagine the pain that these parents must feel for the loss of their children.

I will never forget the lady that my wife and I met in Ukraine a few years ago. She was a teacher forced in prostitution by the need for extra money to purchase drugs for her children who suffered by thiroid cancer caused by the Chernobyl accident. What a tragedy. We tried to help her as much as we could. I will never forget the love and passion for her children that I saw in her eyes. I cannot help it but every time that I hear of children suffering, I think of her.

At 43 my sister decided to do an abrupt career change and become a school teacher in Calif. I've been keeping up with all she's doing to accomplish this, and yesterday she had mentioned while substituting (she's at an elementary school), they had to do "lockdown" training. I don't have kids but maybe this training is the norm in school these days. I said lockdown in elementary? Then today yet another shooting.

My wife is an 8th grade science teacher and every time I hear news like this spreading around the office my stomach drops.

The De Anza Jr College "almost massacre" that happened a few weeks back is about 1 mile from my job. It's quite an eerie feeling when it's in your backyard.

logan

Many of my friends would like to move to the US for work but many say they wouldn't want to raise a family there because of the frequency of this type of occurance. I usually respond by saying that the US is not worse off than we are, we just have a 10th of the US' population and therefore proportionally less crime in schools. Americans, what do you think? Am I right? We Canadians are exposed to the same culture, TV, movies, authors, etc as you are. I'll get in trouble for saying this but the differences between us are not that large. Yet we don't seem to experience the same juvenile crime rate as you do south of the border. Are my initial instincts correct? Or are things really worse in the States and if so, why?

The difference is we have guns Anneke.
The NRA thinks this is good. But we do not need a malita to protect ourselves anymore that is why we have an army. No person has the right to bear arms when we are not in a state of civil war. I wish the government would wake the **** up and make guns illegal. period. they are disasters waiting to happen, every few seconds. it is really sick.
I can't believe I have to ask a parent if there are guns in their house before my kids can go over to play.

Pay attention to your children, they don't go on auto-pilot after grade school.
:mad:

I am troubled, I am concerned,I am moved,I am scared,I love my family. Be true to your children..tell them they are special,be as strong as you can be....don't let them down,be there parent not there best friend.

A moment of silence for these children..
Plant a tree. I planted a colombine spruce in my back yard after the tradigy in colorado and me,my wife and two children lite a candel and said prayers.
It seems the colorodo spruce will have a new nieghber, a weeping willow :(
Be kind,
cc

We have guns here too, most are properly registered and stored, as they should be.

I'm not sure that making guns illegal will have an impact on crime as it doesn't change a criminal's mind set. THe only real consequence is the development of a sophisticated black market. Keep in mind most crimes are not committed with the perpetrator's own gun. There are lots of stolen guns out there and if they don't come from dad's closet, they'll come from across the border somewhere where another mafia will make money.

I hear and respect what you are saying M Brown, but I think something is going on in kids' minds that we need to figure out in hurry. That's where parents should start looking first.

Amen Cape Chef.

sad but true.
my mom used to go through our stuff when we were kids. she says you have to, to save your children from making deadly mistakes. she was referring to drugs and such, now we have to look for bombs, guns and hate literature.
planting something in memory of tragedy is a wonderful way to teach your children compassion and empathy. thanks cc.

My mom knew she wouldn't find drugs; she was after my love letters! She made sport of it though and now we don't talk much. But I turned out ok. SHe might have been a tyrant but at least she took an interest. It's up to parents to raise their kids, not teachers or the system or TV. There are such wonderful examples of great parents out there who do nothing extraordinary but are there for their kids and spend enough time with them to understand how to read them. They are true heros today. Bless you.

Where did he get the gun?

When was the last time you heard of an incident like this in, say France, where private gun ownership is rare? Do they have fewer rights than we do? I think not, and I'd love to have many European countries' education and child care systems.

The key to this horrible story is that the adults did not do what adults are supposed to do.

Funny, I'm 47 and grew up in the California desert. We all owned firearms and did lots of hunting and plinking. If there were differences to settle, we always discussed things that occasionally led to fisticuffs. The idea of using firearms to settle differences never entered OUR heads.

The problem these days is parental neglect, much of it arising from single parent families. :eek:

Dear Crudeau:

Eloquently stated.

Can't blame it all on the media---many things have changed as well.

So many kids are left unsupervised by their parents after school. I guess I was lucky because someone always seemed to be home for me after school. I can't imagine what it's like for these kids to come home every day to an empty house, left up to their own devices, and their tired folks come in after a hard day's work at 6pm, 7pm, or later.

If thelogg is reading, De Anza is where I went to junior college!

Crudeau: It's true, hard to live on one income these days. Within my circle of friends here in WA and in CA..a few (6) have left their jobs over the last few years, given up a lot (careerwise) with LOTS of cutting back on the homefront, to be with their kids-and help them through some difficult issues with school/depression/learning disabilities.

Of course they're not single, so they do have the other income to rely on. Having many friends (and family members) who are single and struggling financially, I know this would be impossible.

I was walking by a TV yesterday, when I heard about the shootings. The newscaster was interviewing a friend of the culperate. The camera kept panning the parents who were standing behind a police line, waiting to pick-up their children. I just had to put down my head and pray.
I've got two great kids of my own. I make sure to tell them every day that I love them.We dont always see eye to eye. My daughter (who is almost twelve) often wonders why I ask so many questions, when she wants to hang with her friends.Who's house, what time, are the parents home, etc etc. "It's not fair" she says..."other parents dont treat their kids like this".......
Yesterday, when I got home, my 8 year old son came tearing around the corner to jump at me to hug me, just like he always does. I then went to find my daughter. When I found her in her room, she asked me what the problem was. "Nothing" I said..."I just wanted a hug". I think she knows now why I ask so many questions.
If you have children...go tell them you love them. That's a start.

Crudeau, that's so underrated, isn't it? I've been saying that for years. How can a kid respect him mom if his dad can't? And vice-versa too! Parents are all about showing a good example. Lynne I really liked you piece too. Some parents have to realise that you can't always 'have it all'. If your kids are going to be a secondary priority, you should probably think twice about having them, or be prepared for a major shift in lifestyle.

I want to back track for a moment and express my concern over something that was said about films and the general media. My problem with the movies is not that they are getting increasingly violent (Shakespeare was more gruesome than any of them, by the way), it's that Hollywood feels obligated to keep the politically correct crowd happy by misrepresenting the true consequences of violence. Case in point: Terminator II: Arnold shoots til the cows come home but never actually kills anyone. Any action flick you see out there is like that: you see flashes and hear the clashing noises from gunfire, bombs etc, but film directors refuse to show just how much damage these actions would realistically cause. Everyone always escapes scotfree. And I won't even discuss Road Runner! If you are going to shoot a violent scene, at least be responsible enough to show the true consequences: they are ugly and tragic and real.

THe other thing that really pisses me off are all those pieces about jails in America. Joan Lunden did one recently. She toured a max security jail for women and interviewed the poor jail birds as if they were the victims. Not onece did she talk about their crime or about their true victims. THis is showing me that if you do a crime and get caught you have America's sympathy. It was infuriating! It's no wonder that it's considered cool to have a criminal record in some parts...

I see this thread spiraling around good parenting as a preventative to this awful outcome. As a 26-year educator, I couldn't agree more. Here's a little story (all names changed, of course): One day a couple of years ago, I observed John on the playground, kicking the daylights out of Joe's leg. John was grinning, ear to ear. I intervened, isolated the two, then walked John to the office. He was disciplined by the A.P., but I also imposed a lunch detention on him (isolated, with teacher supervision during lunch), and had to call his mom to let her know what he'd done. As I told her, she sighed loudly and said, "Not again!" I thought she was tired of hearing about her kid being in trouble, but I wasn't even close. Instead, she said, "Can't you people just let him be a kid?" :eek:

That's an example of the kind of parenting I've seen from parents of kids who get in trouble. They make excuses for their kids' acts of violence, harassment and disruption in school- as well as academic underperformance. 9/10ths of the kids are normal, pleasant kids who would do just fine if this sort of c*** could be stopped. Instead, teachers have to spend 9/10ths of the time they spend disciplning on kids whose parents will ream you out for doing what any responsible parent ought to be doing.

Sorry I vented so long on a periferral issue, but this seems to be a thread and a time for venting!

[ March 06, 2001: Message edited by: Mezzaluna ]

Mezz..how frustrating! That woman sounds like she falls under the "let the government/school/anyone else but me" school of parenting. Doesn't it also come down to personal responsibility or lack thereof these days?

Dear Friends:

Lets not miss the point.

We live in a violent culture that fosters violence. Look at the box office hits. Which movies are the most popular? Look at the electronic games sales figures. Which games are the most popular? Violence has become the biggest part of our entertainment. We enjoy watching it and we pay billions every year to satisfy this craving. Is there something wrong with this? You bet there is! :mad:

To say that taking guns away will solve the problem is at least funny. We need laws and regulations about responsible gun ownership. I got my first hunting license in Greece, my second in France and my third in California. In both European countries I had to pass several tests and I had to get a paper from the Justice Department that I did not have any criminal record. In France, the study book to pass the ttest was 500 pages. In Greece I had to pass both a written and an oral test. In both countries I was able to purchase a gun ONLY after I had obtained my license. In California I was asked by the gun store clerk to show him my DRIVER'S LICENSE!!!! I was able to buy a gun by just showing that I was licensed to DRIVE!!! What does that have to do with owning a gun responsibly, I have no idea! We need more gun regulation but the problem does not end there. The way our culture is developing, people will find other means to harm others.

Let's promote "Slow Food", "True Food", "American Poetry Month" etc... and let's teach our children that violence is not enbtertainment.

I feel better now! :)

Another shooting today. Penn. highschool, female student. Last I read one person shot, not a fatality.

Crudeau...I don't think the media is to blame here. We could be considered the media because we discuss this on a public webpage, you think? I can't believe because someone sees something on tv, they go and do the same. These kids have problems with or without watching tv. It could stem from Dad hitting Mom, kid sees the way to get even with someone you don't like is to attack them. It is my opinion that this kind of thing is going to continue to happen because of a combination of many things (bad parenting, weapon availability, video games, violent music/movies, etc) and until all these things change, our kids will not.

Not a happy outlook from someone married to a middle school teacher. :(

The media is doing its job. If this is happening, we have a right to know. How else can we prepare and prevent these events? Wearing blinders isn't going to help.

As a teacher, I dread hearing the news in the springtime. My husband and I are both teachers in small rural schools, and we have had our share of tragedies--suicides, wrecks, just bad stuff. Usually, when school violence is trumpeted in the media, my students panic. We get lots of lectures about warning signs and such, and the kids want to talk a lot about whatever has happened. It is very weird that they have had absolutely nothing to say about the California shooting, at least not in my classes. And they won't have heard yet about the Pennsylvania one today. School violence has been around for a long time--they just used not to report it on the evening news like they do now. And when it was reported, it was handled differently. Somehow, I think it was better that way. There is a certain mentality that may lean toward copying flamboyant actions of others. For me, March to May are tough months to get through, and I could do without all the media fanfare. Yes, I agree, the public has a right to know. I'm just not sure what effect it has on some kids.

I saw Dateline last night and I thought they did a good job covering the story. The impression I got was they were taking the angle of "this kid said he was going to do it, take ALL threats seriously and tell someone." I think they made their point that no matter how much you think someone is "just kidding", it needs to be reported.