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Need some opinions... - Page 2

post #31 of 54
8/25/07 at 1:27pm
I have not yet been into the upper ranks of the kitchen, but nothing is more discouraging to watch as a soldier on the line then innefficient leadership.

If a Sous is not up to par with what should be expected of him/her, the confidence of employees will crumble on you also because the perception is that you has confidence in him and hired him (even though there are more details to this story).
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post #32 of 54
8/25/07 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Exactly, and they do not know the details, I try to run a professional kitchen and I do not like to tell the business that goes on with me and the Owner.
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post #33 of 54
8/25/07 at 9:36pm
ChefTorrie,
Why don't you meet with the owner and tell him that you need to know what he sees as the obligation to the new hire, as he is having a negative impact on the entire kitchen's preformance, and proceed to tell him where the shortfalls are.
There is nothing wrong with you asking him why this hire is important, and forcing his hand in the decision, after all you and the owner are part of the same management team. Chances are the owner will back pedal fast.
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post #34 of 54
8/25/07 at 10:30pm

advice

I know when i go for the sous positions i have had i have always had to do a oral interview first and then a tasting to see if i had some sence of the kitchen and then finally i had to do the working interview where i had to work shifts for the weekend to see if i was capable. I think its a great way to interview. Heck i do the working interview with my line cooks. Say hey come in and pull a shift and we will talk after. Some People look great on paper and can talk a big talk. Can they walk the walk.

As far as your hesitations... someone with those credentials should not need to be trained. Its business, plain and simple. As friendly as you might want to be with the staff, you are there to make the hard choices and let people go if they are unable to perform the work they are there for.

Just my .02

Andy
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post #35 of 54
8/25/07 at 11:26pm
The new guy might even realize he doesn't fit in and might be waiting and wanting for you to let him off the hook.
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post #36 of 54
8/25/07 at 11:58pm
CT - the guy has lied to you and shouldn't spend a minute more in your kitchen. Either that or he has foxed his way through his other jobs. He's obviously not capable - you need someone who can do the job. It is a business, not a personal relationship. If someone was stealing from you you'd sack them pronto - he is doing the same in effect.

In future -I'd go with a trial period -a week or whatever you think will work. It's obvious after a couple of hours though I think if someone won't work out.

We brought a trial period into our business (not cooking) after a lot of hassles with people who made claims as to what they were capable of but turned out totally incompetent. We keep to the trial period always now.

Good luck with his replacement!!!!!

DC
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein
 
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post #37 of 54
8/26/07 at 12:16am
Guys, I agree with you. If this were any other employee, I would fire him in a second.

But this Sous has a conection with the owner (who was the one to recomend him for the job). Thus the delicate treatment.

You can't fire the Sous unilaterly without stepping into deep political sh*t. The owner needs to involved in the decision so ChefTorrie doesn't get blowback.
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post #38 of 54
8/26/07 at 5:49am
WHAT?!?!??
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post #39 of 54
8/26/07 at 6:54am
Thread Starter 
What is the WHAT!?!?!? about?
I've also had this conversation with many people on other forums.
Where I live this is a very reasonable salary for a Head Sous.
You may live somewhere where living costs are low and it is not that expensive to live in your state.
Why how much do you think they should make.
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post #40 of 54
8/26/07 at 7:54am
Yeah I know, I mean for that kind of money your sous needs to be able to do more than peel onions.
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post #41 of 54
8/26/07 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
He is let go. I did it last nite. I told him this would be his last shift.
He really didn't complain that much and worked his last shift well. Well, not that great, but, did some prep for me Ha! Now I just have to talk to the owner which I am going to do tomorrow morning. Thanks for all of your input guys, I really appreciate it.
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post #42 of 54
8/26/07 at 11:38am
Excellent Chef! :chef: I bet the mood in the kitchen is 100% better.

Good luck on meeting with the owner.
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post #43 of 54
8/26/07 at 12:40pm
Chef,
I was the one who questioned your hesitancy in terminating. I see now that there is much more involved.
I saw some posts going in the direction of labor department. I was short on time that day but wanted to relate that sometimes, fast movement is the way to go in this situation normally. I was once brought up before the labor board, I started telling them that I had givin this person a chance and R A. explaining that they couldn't bring up mixes, bake, or anything of their job requirements from day 1.Although their resume said with thier experience, this was a non issue. Well needless to say I had lost. The main reason being that if this person was this bad I would have terminated sooner.
Just a thought.
Tough situation for you, you'll handle it.
Oh, I see you handled it, cuddos
59K for a 40 yr old. Isn't it funny how this industry is so primitive we think that is a good salary for someone with experience
I figure that I've been in the industry for 3+ decades. With my education and work experience I should be up in the 1.5 million a year as compared to some other fields like financial or medical. People wonder why I just laugh when they ask me if my son is going to get the business or work in the hospitality industry. That might be the only thing that may cause me to disown him:lol:
The only rule I have between us is that he not even wait tables, buss, etc. in college
Sorry, off topic.

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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post #44 of 54
8/26/07 at 12:51pm
Panini-

Are you talking about an unemployment benefits hearing or something else? Here in CA, U/E always seems to side with the ex-employee. It's a good reason to keep written documentation for any disipline issue or Performence Improvement Plan.


At least Chef Torrie's business won't have a large U/E exposure since the Sous was only employeed for ~2 weeks or so...
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post #45 of 54
8/26/07 at 2:46pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you Tincook.

p.s. panini, are you emplying that 60K a year is not a good enough starting salary?
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post #46 of 54
8/26/07 at 3:12pm
I can peel onions and even cook rice. Pay me 60k
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post #47 of 54
8/26/07 at 3:44pm
ChefTorrie,
No, our profession is so antiquated and primitive, most salaries don't come close to those in other fields with experience and schooling. I just happened to catch the local town meeting on cable and their job postings at the end were for baseball field technitions, road crew assistants, etc. The lowest paying position started at 21.87 hr. benefits included. The average mid range kitchen worker here is 10-12 hr. with experience.
The people I work with would be considered extremely overpaid for their positions. BUT, my PC has been with us 21 yrs and our newest employee has been with us for 8 yrs. We do have a little break-in period where they are not considered an employee until they start earning a yearly percent of the operation. That can be 1-18 months.
PS Have an opening for entry level decoration/production in Oct.:D Our one apprentice is off to J&W.
paninicakes.com
Also, Here, unemployment is a percentage. If someone worked 5 months, comes to you and works a month and moves on. I have to pick up that 20 percentage for up to 18 months. That is not the bad part. The increase in your total u/e can surpass what you pay for them by a lot.
Chef, I have taken a break from CT and it has become apparent that I'm back to square one when trying to get my fingers to explain what my mind is thinking, sorry.:D

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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post #48 of 54
8/26/07 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
No big deal panini, I was just trying to figure out what you meant.
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post #49 of 54
8/26/07 at 4:21pm
Here in the UK we have a month or so to get rid of people. I was once in a similar situation. I told the lady in question that the job she had been hired for was perhaps not suited to her and offered her something else. I could almost SEE the relief in her face!!
What is patriotism but the love of the food one ate as a child? ~Lin Yutang
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post #50 of 54
8/26/07 at 4:45pm
BombayBen, with a name like like that you will probably get lots of requests for Indian cooking suggestions.

cool:smiles:
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post #51 of 54
8/26/07 at 4:49pm
No problem - Indian is my thing!!
What is patriotism but the love of the food one ate as a child? ~Lin Yutang
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post #52 of 54
8/26/07 at 4:54pm
I grew up in India and had lots of requests and I'm not an expert in Indian cooking at all. I recently posted at IndiaMike that Indian chefs would be appreciated here.
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post #53 of 54
8/29/07 at 4:10pm
So tell us what happened when you met with the owner???
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post #54 of 54
9/4/07 at 3:49pm
anyone hired in a position of responsibility is given a 1 day payed trial interveiw after the oral one. Mostly you know straight away. Afterthat it's a weeks trial. If you dont know after a week then...............
Afterthat it's 3 months.
I just had to let an commi go after3 months. Still asking me "what will i do now" AARGHH!
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?" Jo Brand
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