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Bread Rising: Autolyse Method

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
This weekend I used the autolyse (autolysis) method of bread making, described in ARTISAN BAKING ACROSS AMERICA. Basically, most of the flour and water are mixed first - TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER INGREDIENTS. Allow the shaggy lump to set for 30 minutes. The dough will smoothen over time. The dough becomes very soft, very soft; and, a little gluten develops. It should smoothen.

At the 30 minute mark mix in the yeast, the salt, and any remaining ingredients. Proceed with kneading. The dough will seem a bit slack. The dough will actually be less tough due to the delayed addition of yeast and salt. The latter two ingredients will toughen dough if added too soon.

Looking at the dough during proofing, I thought that I'd made a Ciabatta, really. I put it the oven like usual.

I got the tallest oven spring ever!!! Really tall. The crumb had huge holes and the crust was actually crunchy. No wash needed. The bread turned out light and not dense using the autloyse method.

It seems that premature addition of yeast and salt result in a dense loaf with little oven spring. The autolyse method is the way to avoid heavyness. And, never have I seen a loaf of bread disappear so quickly.

A big thanks to BigHat for mentioning the book and Ms. Glezer for having written it.

:) :) :) :)

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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post #2 of 36
Thank you for that, koko! I have the book, and have yet to try many of the recipes. So far, I've done the bialys twice, and they came out great. It's a terrific book.
post #3 of 36
I have yet to purchase to book without any further hesitations. Thanks Koko.

What type of flour did you use?
Was your loaf like a baguette or in a loaf pan?

Details please! This is so interesting!

:p

OH and I forgot, did you mix by hand or with KA?

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: pooh ]
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post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 
3 cups KA bread flour
1/2 cup KA whole wheat flour (not white whole wheat)
1 1/4 - 1 1/3 C water
1 1/2 tsp salt
pinch of yeast for the biga
1 tsp SAF instant yeast for the whole mixture


I made a biga using between 1/4 - 1/3 C water mixed with the 1/2 c whole wheat flour and a small pinch of SAF instant yeast. The mixture was allowed to sit for 36 hours, stirring once every 12 hours.

I then made the autolyse: 3 C KA bread flour plus 1 C water. Mix for about 15-25 seconds in the Kitchen Aid. After resting 30 minutes I added 1 tsp yeast, all the salt and the BIGA.

Again: total water was just shy of 1 1/3 cups; this total includes the 1/4 - 1/3 C of water used in the biga.

I continued with mechanical kneading till the dough wrapped around the hook: about 5 - 8 minutes. Not more. Additional mechanical kneading toughens the dough.

After allowing it to rest about 5 minutes, I manually kneaded the dough for about 1 - 2 minutes. Allowed to rise, doubling in size. The dough was turned and allowed to double again.

I chafed, let rest 10 minutes, then shaped into a standard loaf. Proofed about 25-30 minutes. Such a short proofing time since I live near Denver at 6000 ft. elevation.

The dough was floured, slashed 4 times diagonally, and placed onto a baking stone in a 425 oven for 45 minutes.

:cool: :cool:

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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post #5 of 36
Thread Starter 
Oh yes, the final loaf was somewhat bilstered.

Momoreg and Pooh:

I reedited the preceeding recipe a few times. You may want to reread it.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #6 of 36
That was quick! Thank you so much Koko!

I will let you know how that turns out!

:p
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post #7 of 36
I'm happy to report that I've made my biga at 07:00 P.M. I used stone ground whole wheat flour. Tomorrow morning, I will be giving it a stir!

----------

Note: I just realized that 36 hours will be Wednesday MORNING! I think I'll make another biga tomorrow morning so that it will be ready Wednesday NIGHT!!!

Talk about planning... :eek:

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: pooh ]
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post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
I think that allowing the BIGA to ferment anywhere from 24 - 36 hours is a sufficient amount of time. Twelve hours wont make that much of a difference in flavor IMHO. ;)

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #9 of 36
Thanks Koko,

When I got up, I did NOT feel like starting again. I will probably chill it for 12 hours after the first 36 hours, which will bring me to Wednesday night!

:)
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post #10 of 36
Thnaks Koko, I will have to get my hands on that book. :)
post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 
You're all welcome.

I hope that I've helped y'all as much as you've helped me.

I'll continue keeping you posted as to my observations and progress in bread baking.

:D :D :D

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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post #12 of 36
One question:
Salt "burns" yeast. How do you add them in one after the other without harming the yeast? :confused:
post #13 of 36
Thread Starter 
Svad:

Assume that the BIGA and AUTOLYSE have just been placed into the same bowl (you're ready to knead). Just sprinkle the yeast and salt therein. Proceed with kneading immediately and you'll be okay. Kneading will distribute the salt and yeast throughout the dough.

On the other hand if you add salt to a bowl containing only water and dissolved yeast, and let the mixture set, the salt may well "burn", that is, dehydrate the yeast.

The princlple is to prevent prolonged contact of pure yeast with pure salt. Mixing immediately should avoid negative consequences.

:cool:

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #14 of 36
Thread Starter 
Further comments on the autolyse:

I've modified the above listed recipe slightly.

AUTOLYSE: mix the flour and water in the Kitchen Aid for about 15-30 seconds. Just enough to form a shaggy mass.

KNEADING: knead for about 5 - 8 minutes.

WEATHER AND DOUGH RISING: this is where it becomes complex.

1) Last Sunday it was sunny, 75 degrees temp. To let the dough rise, I set the dough bucket in the sun, covered with towel. The resulting loaf was tall with a crunchy crust.

2) Yesterday it was cloudy. So I set the dough bucket in a bowl of warm water. The dough rose much faster. The resulting loaf was low, resembling a Ciabatta, with a slightly tough crust.

However, the crumb of both loaves was moist and still presented a very open texture with large bubbles. Yes, weather and rising conditions affect the final shape of the loaf. It's the autolyse method that gives an open crumb despite how the dough has risen. I think that I'm on to something!

BTW y'all, I picked up a brand new copy of ARTISAN BAKING ACROSS AMERICA on the ebay for $21.50.

:cool: :cool: :rolleyes: :cool: :cool:

[ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

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post #15 of 36
Koko,

I do think you're on to something there and it's quite interesting.

My 36 hours were up this morning, 7:00 A.M. so I stirred my BIGA one last time and put it in the fridge. Tonight, I'll take it out, let it come to room temperature (that won't take time it's practically 90 degrees here) and then proceed with breadmaking, after dinner!

Think I'll go with your second approach. Any thoughts?
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post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
Pooh:

I have no further thoughts but am anxious to hear your observations. I'll be waiting. :cool:

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #17 of 36
Thanks Koko.

I will let you know in the morning!
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post #18 of 36
Happy to report that it worked. A lovely bread came out of the oven, way passed midnight!

The crumb was moist and presented a very open texture with large bubbles, like you said. The crust was beautiful and crunchy.

Had toast this morning! It was delicious (without that sour levain taste that hubby can't stand!)

Thanks again Koko for the lovely experience.

:p
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post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 
Great going, Pooh. I was very happy that what I learned from the book was not serendipitous. Did you get a copy of Artisan Baking Across America? :D

[ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #20 of 36
It's a long holiday weekend here. It would make sense to get it tomorrow, even tonight!

Should I get Crust & Crumb too?


:rolleyes:
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post #21 of 36
Thread Starter 
I have no opinion on CRUST AND CRUMB. I'd ask BigHat. However, if I get another bread book after "ABAA", it'll be one of the following:

AMY'S BREAD
CRUST AND CRUMB
THE VILLAGE BAKER
BREADS FROM LA BREA BAKERY

Those titles may be slightly incorrect. I don't want to get another book too soon due to information overload. :rolleyes:

[ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #22 of 36
Thanks Koko. I already have La Brea and love it too!

:)
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post #23 of 36
Thread Starter 
This weekend I'll try the same recipe. However, the porportion of BIGA will increase. It consists of:

1/2 c KA whole wheat flour
1/2 c KA Bread flour
1/2 c water
Pinch of SAF Red Instant Yeast

Overall, the total amounts of flour and water will be the same as in my original recipe. What changes is the proportion of BIGA; it's approx 30% of the total breadloaf. I read somewhere that starters, including bigas, range from 30 - 50% of the final product.

;)

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #24 of 36
Looking forward to your next post!

:)
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post #25 of 36
I have Nancy Silverton's book and I just yesterday got Crust & Crumb. It too looks very cool. I like that both do more than present recipes. They explain the thought process and some of the science behind bread baking. I'm waiting on some barley malt and organic whole wheat flour from KA and the games will begin!

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 
Kyle:

Regarding barley malt, my KA flour contains malted barley. Most flours contain malted barley as an additive. Yours should, too. Check your label carefully. The KA package label should show that the malted barley has already been added to the KA flour. Furthermore, my breads do very well without additional malted barley. :eek:

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #27 of 36
Anyone experimented with Vital wheat gluten, a pure gluten powder that is sometimes used in small amounts to strengthen weak flours?

High-gluten flour (essential for bagel making) is difficult to find here and I read that the addition of vital wheat gluten may do the trick...

I'm in the mood for homemade bagels!!!

:confused:
K

«Money talks. Chocolate sings. Beautifully.»
«Just Give Me Chocolate and Nobody Gets Hurt.»
«Coffee, Chocolate, Men ... Some things are just better rich.»
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K

«Money talks. Chocolate sings. Beautifully.»
«Just Give Me Chocolate and Nobody Gets Hurt.»
«Coffee, Chocolate, Men ... Some things are just better rich.»
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post #28 of 36
Thread Starter 
KA sells a high gluten flour at, I think, 14.7% protein. They also sell wheat gluten.

Somewhere I read that wheat gluten can be produced at home. Make a small ball of dough from just flour and water. Hold the ball under running water to wash away the non glutinous substance(s). What remains is a ball of gluten. ;)

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

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post #29 of 36
Kimmie

I use it in my rye breads. It seems to help and certainly doesn't hurt. I can find it in the supermarket. Not sure about the land of the Maple Leaf :) (no, not the Maple Leafs, Vive Les Habitants!)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #30 of 36
Thanks you two!

Hey, this is the KKK baking team...nice and friendly!

;)
K

«Money talks. Chocolate sings. Beautifully.»
«Just Give Me Chocolate and Nobody Gets Hurt.»
«Coffee, Chocolate, Men ... Some things are just better rich.»
Reply
K

«Money talks. Chocolate sings. Beautifully.»
«Just Give Me Chocolate and Nobody Gets Hurt.»
«Coffee, Chocolate, Men ... Some things are just better rich.»
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