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Moving shop

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I have found a great deal for a new place. two times the space at 1/2 the rent and it's (right now) up to code. It used to be a deli and has a wine and beer lic.

My problem is that the current tenant has ( he claims ) sunk in about 5G worth of Lease holder improvements (plumbing and electrical work) to bring the place up to code. That's how the ad stated the local.

"SMALL RESTAURANT SPACE UP TO CODE"

Now, the current tennant is asking me for 2200 dollars to leave all the new plumbing and electrical.

I say, those are lease holder improvements and he cannt rip them out, I"ve already given my old landlord notice and the new landlord deposits.

Now, I'm scared, because I live in Miami and I don't know what the Commercial real Estate laws here or what they have written in their lease.

I have notified the Current Landlord about this, but I haven't gotten any replies...

I"m like..you are closing your business, not even being open a year..( they are a deli that only opens for lunch mon-fri....they don't stay late or open early and never open on weekends! it's in a small downtown commercial area!)

you will get the benefit of the tax write off for the business and all the money you sank into the shop with improvements, I'm not going to give you another 2200 dollars on TOP of that!

I recommended that the current landlord speaks to the current tenant because if he removes all the work , the space is no longer up to code and not the space that was advertised.

Any advice?

At this time, I'm willing to just throw my hands up and just close, I'm so frustrated!

Mara
Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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post #2 of 10
I'd just stay out of it altogether.
It sounds like the current tenant has made some very poor and uninformed business decisions. If he is not willing to put in the hours to make a success of a deli business, that's his problem. If he sunk money into the place making capital improvements that cannot legally be removed when he cancels his lease, again, that's his problem.
You should deal with the landlord and make your agreements with him, not with the current bozo running the deli. Any issues regarding previous improvements to the location are between those two, not you. If the landlord advertised the location for lease at a certain price, in a particular condition (ie, up to code) and you signed a lease for that place, he cannot change the contract after the fact.
If the current tenant contacts you, just tell him your agreement is with the landlord, not him.
Hope it all works out in your favor. Good luck.

www.foodandphoto.com

Liquored up and laquered down,
She's got the biggest hair in town!

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www.foodandphoto.com

Liquored up and laquered down,
She's got the biggest hair in town!

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post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Yep, that's what I say...I went to him for 2 weeks straight asking for an inventory and pricing on any and all equipment that he was willing to sell to see if there was anything I 'needed" or wanted..

Instead he kept putting me off, then this week when I had a cake order for 150 people, cupcakes for 130 kids and 2 coconut layer cakes ...He's "available" and this is what he wants to talk about?

Uh uh..no way,Last week I emailed the landlord and asked him to take care of this, as I am NOT financing their move.

Let me tell you about hard work..I work....10 hours days plus and open 6 days a week, 7 when I have a lot of work..and when I'm not in my shop, I'm taking classes, on buying trips, and doing research to keep myself current...I WISH I could only work a few hours a day like THIS dude..lol

I'm so dedicated to my business, customers and art that Friday night when we lost power in the whole block...I was trying to finish decorating cakes via the light of my little cell phone! lol
Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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post #4 of 10
Mara, well from a previous life I know a little bit about this stuff.. It is really like this... the lease sets the course of action. BE VERY CAREFUL... FnF is pretty close with his comments but not entirely. IF the current tennant was given concessions for upfit, ie: rental reductions, rental abatements etc then the landlord may have something to say about him tearing up the leased premises when the tenant decides to vacate the bldg. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE TENANT SAYS. BUT the tennant MAY have some sort of a clause in the lease about what can happen when he terminates the lease ie removing leasehold improvements.

Here are a couple of ideas... FIRST OF ALL what does the new landlord say about this... you gave him a deposit right?? Has he given the existing tenant notice to vacate or a termination date?? If so what will be condition of the space, (which you WILL HAVE TO AGREE TO TAKE AND RETURN IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS resonable wear and tear excepted)What are the current zoning regs. (easy to find out by calling the zoning dept) Will the lease be a sublease from the deli... what does the lease say about that? What is the remaining TERM OF THE ORIGINAL LEASE. Are there ANY percentage rents (additional rents paid based on annual revenue, very common) Does the 2200 include taxes, maintenance (roof, plumbing, structure, sidewalks in front, parking areas etc)?? Does it include utilities etc... The deli may be sellin you his liquor license as well... you may or may not want that... and he definately wants to sell that.

IF the landlord took your deposit then you should be dealing with him...there are real estate laws regarding such... and he KNOWS THEM. Forget the deli owner at this point. (hey he figgers if you will pay him why not ask for it) If you paid the landlord get him to send you a lease! MAKE SURE YOU GET THE LANDLORD TO AGREE THAT THE SPACE IS UP TO CODE UPON POSSESSION...that way he will be sure the plumbing and electric stay.

Many decisions here I would be glad to "coach ya" from the sidelines if you would like feel free to pm me...or better yet get an attny to step in...your attny will keep everyone honest!! (just cost ya..but it might just be money well spent)
Scott B
MISC

As far as the Kitchen goes, it is a long, long day that is never really over, you just go home at some point
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Scott B
MISC

As far as the Kitchen goes, it is a long, long day that is never really over, you just go home at some point
Reply
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Frayedknot..

the current leaseholder is breaking his lease agreement with the current landlord because he wasn't "making" it, even with several rent breaks from the landlord and he is leaving owing back rent.

That's not here nor there as that's between the current tenant and the current landlord.

All I know is that the current landlord advertised the space as a small Cafe/Restaurant space that was up to code and that is what I walked into...

I've pulled away from dealing with the current tenant as all I wanted was an inventory and price list of current equipment to see if there was anything I wanted.

I gave my current landlord 30 days notice and asked him if I could use my "last" months rent to cover my last 30 days, all he stipulated was that I be out by the date I stated..nothing more.

Whatever issues the current landlord is having with his tenant I hope wont end up screwing me or affecting me to the point that I'm left without the rope or the goat!

I've emailed the current landlord, but I havent' had a response from him. and yes, your help is more than appreciated..( I posted in the public forum so other people can benefit )
Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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post #6 of 10
Mara, you are spot on with the thoughts of not dealing with the existing tenant. Do NOT return his call and when you go silent HE WILL CALL. He is out of the picture.
Fact is YOU may be a barganing chip used by the existing tenant and the LL is not calling YOU because the Deli guy is telling him "I have a new tenant for you" she is willing to pay you 2200/mo OR I CAN GET HER TO PAY YOU 2200.00 so let me off the hook...the increased rent will pay my back rent. The LL is saying "sorry deli guy you owe me the monthly rents times the number of months left on the original term...or I will see you in court.. The LL is totally negotiating at this point as well... I would call your PRESENT LL ASAP and try to negotiate an extension... at least you will know where you stand with your present LL....

We should probably have this conversation in email ... I am not sure that others would be interested in this situation...check you PM's my email is there.
Scott B
MISC

As far as the Kitchen goes, it is a long, long day that is never really over, you just go home at some point
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Scott B
MISC

As far as the Kitchen goes, it is a long, long day that is never really over, you just go home at some point
Reply
post #7 of 10
I have never liked lawyers, never liked dealing with them or paying them, but this is the only time I would advocate using one. Get a lawyer to read the lease, this will be the best $1000.00 you spent.

There are no "standard" leases, it's just an agreement between the LL and the tenanat. I was on the opposite side of the coin, and I want to tell what I did:

5 years ago we moved out of our "deli", it was getting too small, but our lease said all leasehold improvements were ours. We tried to sell the business, lock, stock, and barrel, and with the money we would buy all new equipment at our new place. The buyer agreed to our terms, but when the time came to pay up, he backed out, but the slime-ball had done a deal with the LL and secured the lease to our place. A month before we moved out he comes by and offers peanuts for some of the equipment, we told him (in coarser language...) to fry a kite. A week before move-out date he goes through the LL to buy the walk-in and ventilation hood, again offering peanuts. We don't even respond. We moved EVERYTHING out of that place, I mean everything. Even moved out the wheel-chair approved toilets and replaced them with lime green and pink garge sale toilets. I personally removed the fire supression system and paid to have the ventilation system removed, plugged up the roof where the extraction fans had been. Got pictures of my then 5 yr old son with a drill in his hand removing the s/s fire wall. Didn't get much for all that, but come move in date came for the new guy he had a surprise, maybe I overdid a bit when I scrawled "Happy April Fools" in magic marker on the wall ( it was april 1...)

Bottom line, read the lease, then get a lawyer to read it.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Wow, but if your lease stated that all lease holder improvements were yours, then you were right in taking them with you.

The thing is that the space was ADVERTISED as CAFE SPACE/SMALL RESTAURANT UP TO CODE!

I don't need nor want any thing the Deli guy currently has, I TOLD him that I have all my equipment.

I asked him for an inventory list and price to see if there was ANYTHING that I could use, no other reason, and he delayed me for over 2 weeks.

Now, he's trying to ask me for money!! and rushing me....I just got a phone call from the landlord ...they just got back from being away.

I smell something fishy....


Maybe Deli guy thought that he could see if he could get some money from me, rush out before the current owner got back from vaca..lol

I decided that I don't need to deal with Deli guy, and let the Landlord and him fight it out.

I'm so ready to just pack up my shop and close up and get a job teaching! ugh.
Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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post #9 of 10
I dunno, if the LL installed or otherwise compensated the tenanant for the improvements, then he (LL) gets to keep them and use it as a leasehold improvement for the next tenant. O.T.O.H. if the tenant installed the improvements himself and did not recieve any compensation (free rent, partial pay-out etc.) then he could rip that stuff out just to P...off the LL and new tenant. All depends what the lease says.

Looks like the tenant defaulted and the LL wants him/her out, hence the tenant's reluctance to do anything until the eviction order is staring him in the face and he figures it's time to cut losses and make some kind of a buck.

This is pretty typical in the restaurant biz, just take a look at any used food eqpt. auction. Man, there's a million stories there screaming to be told....
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
yeah I think that's what's happening, the guy defaulted on rents and now is waiting it out, I just drove by the place and they haven't even taken their signs down.

I have all the equipment my shop needs, all I need is to move in and plug in and start working.
Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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Food may bring us together, but a CAKE makes it a PARTY!!
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