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Best knives to use?? - Page 3

post #61 of 71
Buzz, that Takeda is a beautiful knife. So is the ol' Elephant.

FWIW, I polish the patina off of mine occasionally with Bar Keeper's Friend, baking soda, brasso, or what have you. But right now they're looking pretty patinated.

Have you tried any of the NOS Nogent knives yet? Beaucoup nice. Very light. The semi-rectangular cross section, ebony handles on the rat-tail tangs are very much like traditional Japanese handles.

I know the "story" that Thiers-Issard and "K" are telling, but my guess is the blanks were hidden from the French then German Occupation governments to keep them from confiscation during WWII, then simply forgotten in the back of a few warehouses Thiers-Issard acquired when they bought Elephant or ****, and finally rediscovered when the warehouses were scheduled to be razed and an inventory was finally taken. I actually remember the story of the rediscovery.

post #62 of 71
I'm embarrassed to say it but the "patina" on the Sab is partly self induced. I use two types of edge guards, Messermeister Edge-Guard and Edge-Mags. Something in the magnetics reacted with the steel and left those long quarter inch wide ugly streaks. Years of beautiful patina and now I'll have to polish it out. Thank God that was the only carbon blade in that type of guard.

The "buyout" thing is what the importer is saying. I've tried to contact TI with no luck. Perhaps a trip to Thiers..... I have about 15 Sab nogents left to ebay and then I'm done. The exchange rate is killing me. :cool:
Buzz - with a Short Pilot Story

One day, long, long ago there was this Pilot who, surprisingly...........
was not full of crap....
But it was a long time ago.... And it was just one day. The End
Buzz - with a Short Pilot Story

One day, long, long ago there was this Pilot who, surprisingly...........
was not full of crap....
But it was a long time ago.... And it was just one day. The End
post #63 of 71

BDL - if you're into Sabatiers you'll love these. They're both Thiers-Issard carbons with 11" blades. I left the protection on the new model blade but unwrapped the handle to show it off. This knife is fantastic. Absolutely dead straight and the fit and finish is very high quality. The handle is drop dead gorgeous for a factory knife.

Arggg!!! Just heard Brett Favre is giving it up. I was raised 85 miles from Green Bay and my heart is broken :cry:

Oh, Sabs..... 11 inches is a lot for a home chef and a dream for some pros. The homies are all raised on 8" chef's and 6-7" Santokus so it can be a tad intimidating. Personally I just love to pull out that old one once in a while when I'm chopping up lots of veggies for dinner guests. Under the right lighting conditions the patina looks like a rainbow. I keep that particular edge at 15* and the vegetables tremble when they see it coming.... :cool:
Buzz - with a Short Pilot Story

One day, long, long ago there was this Pilot who, surprisingly...........
was not full of crap....
But it was a long time ago.... And it was just one day. The End
Buzz - with a Short Pilot Story

One day, long, long ago there was this Pilot who, surprisingly...........
was not full of crap....
But it was a long time ago.... And it was just one day. The End
post #64 of 71
Hey what's the scoop on removing stains from carbon steel with a half a potato and baking soda? Never had any carbon knives, but worked with Chef's who did, and that was the procedure one guy did every night.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #65 of 71
Baking soda not only polishes stains off, it neutralizes the chemical activity in the steel, leaving an anti-acid/anti-stain residue on the blade.

Not sure about the spud.

post #66 of 71
OK, here is what I have started with. I got a 6" and 8" chefs knife from Chicago Cutlery, a 6" santuko from Mac and a 10" bread knife from Forschers. This is my start for now. Thanks again for all the advice given for any future given.

post #67 of 71
A lot of good advice given in this thread. My 2 cents: Good knives last more than a lifetime (for the home cook) if cared for properly. Don't waste your money on cheap knives. Buy quality, enjoy them for your lifetime and then pass them on to your heirs.
post #68 of 71
Actually, you may be thinking of stock cars (i.e., NASCAR). F1 cars are typically very different in make-up. More money equals a better engine, etc. Stock cars are all built to run the same. Pretty nit-picky I know, but just had to clear that up. Aside from that, I completely agree.
post #69 of 71

Sorry for reviving a dead thread (  blame google on that one :P )




where does one get a good japanese knife that does not contain wood or bone handle ??

hell I do not even care if it is not stainless I just want a razor knife all day :P

( not much time for steeling knifes since they increased our daily quota to finish by 25% )



I work in a boning room slicing all day and wanting to get harder steel 'd knife

using F.Dick / VICTORINOX / Dextor by the end of the day all 6 knifes are blunt and need a touch up on the edge pro 600 then 1000 grit stones , the 2000 / 3000 / 6000 grits do nothing to these knifes I am hoping a good japanese knife will make use of them


also been using 18 (36) and 15 (30)deg edges ( another reason these knifes are getting blunt fast 21 (42) deg is ok for my 10" going through bone tho :P )  I would love nothing more then to have a 6 ( 12 ) deg edge not being greedy or anything its just the quickest angle to set the edge pro at :P


ceramic blades and wooden / boned handles are all banned


does any one know of VG-10 hRC 60+ blades floating around with out a wooden handle ? even SG-2 / aogami super steel  /

are on my hit list


or even metal handled ones ?


the only ones I seem to find are to damn cheap to be true

post #70 of 71

Wa or yo handles?

Traditional western butchers' profiles? Or, something else?

I'm going to assume yo, and give you a couple of "highlights." Masamoto VG has a resin handle. VG is VG-1, not VG-10 -- imo VG-1 has less issues and is a better choice; hardness is 59ish; one of the very best stainless yo-gyutos. I recommend the knife very highly but don't know if they have any choice in butchers' profiles. Don't think so.

If I'm not mistaken, all of the Togiharu lines (from Korin) have resin handles. Togihaur G-1 is VG-10. Call Korin to make sure about the handles. I'm not a big fan of Togiharu in general, the G-1 (since the last price raise); or, unless you're in the NYC area, Korin either-- but despite my lack of enthusiasm, they're at least okay. Extremely limited choice of profiles.

You might want to check into a few Miyabis. I believe they have resin handles as well. Call SLT; it may take awhile before you get someone who knows more than is already in their online catalog, but be patient. SLT gives a 15% professinal discount -- but you've got to ask.

You should call CKTG and ask Mark; he has a big range and knows them.

No knife will hold a 6* edge in your environment -- at least not more than for a few minutes.

I wouldn't say this to a home cook, but since you're a professional you get the bucket of cold water. You're tossing around alloy names and sharpening strategies as if you know what they mean in terms of what they will and won't do for you. You obviously do not. The good part is that it opens up the thread to some discussion about them.

Almost all VG-10 knives are prone to chipping easily. That definitely includes the Togiharus, and the exceptions have wood handles. That probably includes everything you can afford to use on a butchering room floor . SG is almost always hardened to well beyond the point to where it can be steeled, you'll be sharpening TWICE a day. I doubt if any metallurgical powder ally is a good choice for a professional butcher (I could be wrong, though). Aogami Super, also too hard and not stainless to boot.

You've taken your edge angles way too far, they're wildly inappropriate for your hardware and your work. Referring to the Forschners only, they should be thinned to nothing more acute than 12* per side, then given a 17* micro bevel on top of that. 20* over 15* would be a lot better, and still on the very thin side compared to most of the knives used by your colleagues. You give up a little bit of absolute sharpness in favor of a huge increase in durability. A worthwhile trade. The Dexters should be no more acute than 22/17. I'm not sure about the F. Dick's, would start at 20/15 and switch to 17, then 20 on the cutting bevel if 15 didn't hold up. As with any knife, once the edge gets too thick, you can re-profile the entire edge. But there's no need to push it any quicker -- just a waste of metal and -- when going more obtuse -- a huge waste of sharpening time.

The basic buthers' boning and breaking profiles are very iffy when it comes to acute angles. Their so narrow and their grinds taper so much -- it's not easy to keep anything like an acute angle and get any wear out of the knife. The bottom line is that you go through narrow knives in a hurry. Don't waste your money on anything too expensive, because you'll go through those just as quickly.

An Edge Pro 1000# is as fine as you need to take any red meat cutting knife. Cutting shashimi is one thing, basic fabrication proteins is another. The "bite" of a medium finish is your friend.

About professional, meat cutting meat knives, Forschner is the gold standard in the US for a reason.

1. Forschners come in every known useful profile at every useful length; the Fibrox handles are outstanding; they're NSF certified and ready to go. Japanese knives -- especially those available in the US -- no.
2. Because Forschners are made from X50CrMoV15 hardened to 57ish RCH, their edges respond better to steeling during the day than almost any Japanese knife; also, because the alloy is so tough (as opposed to strong) Forschner edges wear comparatively slowly and actually need fewer trips to the stones per hour of use than most Japanese knives;
3. Professionals who are sensitive enough to sharpness to sharpen a given knife after a certain amount of use, will almost certainly end up sharpening any knife every day. That is, if you get 8 hours of working sharpness out of a Forschner, you're going to get -- at most -- 10 out of a Masamoto. The quality of those 10 hours might be very different, but you'll still be sharpening every day. So factor that in.
4. Forschners -- if not cheap -- are well priced; you can buy them anywhere; their warranty and US support is good.

There are limits to all this Swiss love. I wouldn't recommend a Forschner chef's knife for a line cook in a high end restaurant who's looking to trade some bucks to make prep easier, there I'd say buy Japanese. But, you aren't a line cook in a high-end. Horses for courses.

Hope this helps,
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/14/11 at 9:13am
post #71 of 71

Thanks for the reply just making a quick post here as I have no time right now 


I didn't mean to say 6 deg I meant 12 deg ( I Divided / multiplied the wrong way ) what I should have said was 12 ( 24 ) 

and the angles you mentioned were around what I use ( double edge / bevel method ) Currently using Edge Pro but going to give the wicked edge a go as they are better equiped for harder steels 


but what I am after is something that will require a lot less steeling at the current angles then what is currently being done , the higher 20+ deg angles just do not seem to cut through the skin as good when trimming of the skin / fat , 21 just feels blunt ( cuts hair of the sharpener ) 18 seemed ok but needed more steeling then the 15 ( I am guessing I just do not notice the rolled edge as much @ 15 )



I have actually now discovered the GLOBALS knife Collection do what I need and might give them ago .. just as soon as I stop finding all the fake ones ... just bought a few el cheapo's that have the same shape for testing ( $150 so called VG10 6 knifes )


I slice beef product in abatoirs boning room 200 bodies a shift  , the current knifes are great for boning just not so much with slicing when you have 10 secs to clear each cut ( mostly been using skinning knife), at least boning you have 38 sec to rip the primals out 


at least knifes are a tax deduction

work does supply free knives that we can swap back in for new ones but are only el cheapo's ( DKINOX is one I have here with me atm ) that are lucky to survive a month( what we mainly use for boning .. this one is used for 1/4 ing) 

Edited by MasterCATZ - 9/16/11 at 5:13pm
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