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Creamier Vinaigrette

post #1 of 46
5/6/08 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
I'd sometimes like my vinaigrette to be thicker and creamier. I usually use a 2:1 or 3:1 or so ratio of oil to acid (vinegar or lemon juice), add some Dijon mustard to taste (often about 1 - 2 tsp depending on volume), and the result, while not watery, is not as creamy as I'd cometimes like. Any suggestions on how to make the dressing thicker and creamier?

scb
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post #2 of 46
5/6/08 at 11:14am
Vinaigrette is not meant to be thick or creamy but of a good smooth consistency ,if you are using a good olive oil make sure you leave your dressing in the fridge for at least 12 hours this will make it thicken naturally ,,I have never tried this but you could try whisking in a couple of spoons of mayo
enjoy
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post #3 of 46
5/6/08 at 11:28am
If you like your dressing thick and creamy you should mix your vinegar and mustard then slowly add your oil wisking all the time this makes a emulsion, alternativly use a hand blender.
steve www.masterchefinfrance.com
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post #4 of 46
5/6/08 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 
OK, I'll try that. I don't make the vinaigrette in that fashion right now - not slowly adding the oil and whisking all the time.

shel
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post #5 of 46
5/6/08 at 12:10pm
I usually use the hand blender and get good results.
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post #6 of 46
5/6/08 at 12:17pm
I agree with everything Steve says.

ALSO, your vinegar-oil ratio is extremely vinegary -- and vinegar is mostly water. The normal ratio range for vinaigrette is 3 - 5 oil to one vinegar. I understand that some people make dressings with 2 parts mild vinegar and 1 part fruity olive oil to get a flavor balance -- but that's not really a vinaigrette. You'll never get "creamy" using that much vinegar. You might consider stronger vinegars such as sherry, and/or a very mild EV olive oil such as most French oils, Bertolli from Italy or Carbonell from Spain.

Something else to think about is using dry mustard powder to facilitate the emulsion rather than Dijon. Dijon and other prepared mustards bring heap plenty vinegar and/or wine and/or verjus to the party.

Adding sour cream, creme fraiche, mayonnaise, or what have you is not strictly vinaigrette cricket either. But who cares? They work.

BDL
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post #7 of 46
5/6/08 at 12:21pm
ChefinFrance is quite right. I used to make a sherry vinaigrette at work, for which I would whisk together sherry vinegar, mustard, and S&P, then add slowly the oil while whisking the **** out of it. I had to make large quantities at a time, so I used a mixer with a whip attachment. But I think it would work in smaller quantities using an immersion blender. [Oh, I see Phil just mentioned that. Great minds, etc.] Blend your mustard, vinegar, and seasonings, then blend as you drizzle in the oil. Remember, though, that this is only a temporary emulsion (like love? :lol: ) and it will eventually break.

Another possibility is to add a tiny bit of egg yolk -- the natural emulsifiers in the yolk will help hold the vinaigrette together. There's a recipe for a "Creamy Salad Dressing" that appeared in the NY Times exactly 30 years ago -- includes a teaspoon of egg yolk and a teaspoon of heavy cream to 1/2 cup of oil and 1 tablespoon acid and 2 to 3 teaspoons mustard -- that I have used all that time at home. It never fails. If you like, I will paraphrase the recipe later. (I don't know if something that old still falls under copyright protection, but I suspect so.)
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post #8 of 46
5/6/08 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
There are some very good sounding ideas here. I'll start incorporating them in the next batch of vinaigrette I make.

One thing I like to do is add a dash of good balsamic vinegar to my vinaigrette along with the red wine vinegar. It adds a nice, more rounded flavor to the result.

shel
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post #9 of 46
5/6/08 at 6:45pm
Well, between BDL and Suzanne it was all said but i wanted to post anyway. I have just learned some new emulsions and most are using an egg yolk as a binder, they are fairly thick and creamy if your not opposed to raw egg or can get pasteurized ones.
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post #10 of 46
5/6/08 at 7:28pm
I'm thinking I might try sesame flour as an emulsifier for vinaigrette some time. I'd have to take the (delicious) sesame flavor to mind for what I might put together.
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post #11 of 46
5/7/08 at 1:14pm
What about using sesame oil and olive oil, mirin or rice wine vinegar, soy sauce, garlic, and ginger?

Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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post #12 of 46
5/7/08 at 2:59pm

you guys amaze Me

Here we have a straight forward question about vinaigrette before we know it we are talking about sesame flour, sesame oil ,rice wine etc etc . You can mix all three with what ever you want but please do NOT call it vinaigrette. By simple definition vinaigrette must contain vinager follow that with oil and maybe mustard but always remember the moment you use a French name for a recipe it is a French dish to this date I have not come accross any recipes using sesame oil or rice wine in French cusine.
steve www.masterchefinfrance.com
As boring as it may seem to some I still believe you must learn the basics before you can master the ART
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post #13 of 46
5/7/08 at 3:54pm
What about xanthan gum? ;)
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post #14 of 46
5/7/08 at 3:57pm
The nomenclature has been accepted and broadened for use describing the same techniques for other cuisines. Rather usefully so.

Phil
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post #15 of 46
5/7/08 at 4:03pm
Rice wine vinegar = Vinegar, yes?
Sesame oil and olive oil = Both oils, yes?

Emulsifiers, salt, pepper, garlic, other flavoring ingredients = present in many vinegarettes, correct?

If the only "true" vinegarette in the world consisted of red wine vinegar, olive oil or vegetable oil, and salt and pepper, it would truly be a boring place.

I don't claim to know everything-- however -- the ability to play with variations on basic concepts is what cooking is all about, to me.

The method would still be the same, with the oil/vinegar/flavoring ingredients in the same proportions, so in my mind, I don't believe I've violated any sacred laws of Frenchness throwing out an idea for a variation.
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post #16 of 46
5/7/08 at 4:48pm
I second xanthan gum, thats how ranch is thickened.
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post #17 of 46
5/7/08 at 4:54pm
Actually, ab definito, tradition and practice, not to mention Escoffier and Pellaprat, a sauce vinaigrette is invariably olive oil and wine vinegar, combined 3:1 with the addition of salt and pepper; and may contain mustard, herbs, olives, capers, anchovies, etc.

To my mind, though, without an emulsifier (and I prefer mustard), it's not sauce vinaigrette, but oil and vinegar.

Yes. Yes. Mais biensur, madame. Oui. C'est vrais. And, ooh la la. The power of French technique is that it is so adaptable to a variety of ingredients and cuisines. The breadth of French cuisine, like all great Imperial cuisines, comes from it's inclusion of and inspiration by an infinite number of sources and resources.

My 2 Euros,
BDL
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post #18 of 46
5/7/08 at 6:01pm
Thread Starter 
I tend to agree with Steve in that, for me, a vinaigrette is a very simple concoction: oil, vinegar, some salt, maybe some pepper, and perhaps some garlic (infused and strained out), and perhaps some mustard. The idea of using flour, eggs, mayonnaise, xanthan gum, and what-all-else just seems out of place in a vinaigrette, and may certainly change the flavor and texture of the mixture. I'm just an old fart and a traditionalist. Flour and xanthan gum! Sheesh!

scb
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post #19 of 46
5/7/08 at 6:38pm
But you yourself said lemon juice :smiles:
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post #20 of 46
5/7/08 at 6:39pm
If we used lemon juice in place of vinegar, shouldn't we call it a "citronette"?
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post #21 of 46
5/7/08 at 7:49pm
Well, there you go. Garlic isn't really part of a classic (Escoffier) vinaigrette. According to Pellaprat who actually knew August Escoffier, it's a southern (Midi-Provencal) regional thing. (I can't remember what Augie said himself, and it appears that a certain daughter made off with my copy of Guide Culinaire when she was down here for spring break.) Besides, I think we have you on record as using balsamic vinegar, when only regular wine vinegar is old fart certified.

Also and FWIW, sesame flour isn't really flour, any more than mustard powder a.k.a. mustard flour is. It's just pulverized sesame without any oil.

Agree on xanthan, guar, locust, etc. They may hold things together but they also make them slimy. Besides, I'm not looking for my vinaigrette to hold together longer than it takes to make and eat a salad. Shelf life is not my middle name.

BDL
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post #22 of 46
5/7/08 at 8:19pm
Funny! :D
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post #23 of 46
5/9/08 at 12:59am

Vinaigrette

Much debate on this thread has led me to look at my copy of Larousse Gastronomique. In respect to the copyright rules on this site I have slightly changed the wording.

Vinaigrette (check spelling)

A cold sauce or dressing made from vinegar, oil, pepper and salt, to which various flavourings may be added: shallot, onion, herbs, capers, garlic, gherkins, anchovies, hard boiled egg or mustard.

The choice of oil (olive, sunflower walnut and so on) and vinegar is made according to the salad: The vinegar may be replaced by lemon juice or is sometimes flavoured with it. Vinaigrette is also used to dress cold dishes: vegetables, meat and fish in a court bouillon.

It is considered to be a typically French sauce and is often called "French Dressing" in Britain. Chevalier d'Albignac started the fashion in London high society for salads dressed in this way.

So there you have it :)

I would say that only way to alter the consistency is through blending or mixing, and adding thickening agents would be corrupting the true definition of vinaigrette.
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post #24 of 46
5/9/08 at 6:20am
Then why try and make it something it isn't (ie;thicker and creamier) in the first place????? It is what it is.
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post #25 of 46
5/9/08 at 9:01am
Because he wasn't getting actual vinaigrette texture -- his was too watery. This probably resulted from trying to get her preferred taste balance using milder vinegars, and ended in a cockamamie 2:1 ratio. FWIW, highlighting the vinegar is the most common mistakes for home cooks using best ingredients; and, although I hate to make gender distinctions, women in general -- probably as reflexive fat cutting.

IMO, we can relax a bit on our terms too.

Is a Caesar dressing a vinaigrette? At bottom, I think it is. It also shows what using emulsifiers like anchovies, mustard, egg and cheese can do to make a really thick, creamy emulsion. Which brings us back to ultra-traditional vinaigrettes -- which may incorporate anchovies and mustard as emulsifiers.

And what's wrong with that?
BDL
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post #26 of 46
5/9/08 at 1:21pm
Thread Starter 
Shel is not a she. Shel doesn't care too much about calories in vinaigrette-type salad dressing.

A true (the original) Caesar dressing doesn't use anchovies.

shel (XY Chromosome)
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post #27 of 46
5/9/08 at 2:01pm

Vinaigrette

Just a little French lesson for you non believers, vin means wine, aigre means sour. so sauce vinaigrette is a classic french dressing using sour wine or vinegar. The word you should be using is salad dressing, you can then add whatever you want and be has creative as you want, so if you want to blend squid ink with yaks milk then fine but please do not call it vinaigrette.
steve www.masterchefinfrance.com
call me anything you want but dont call me late for dinner.
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post #28 of 46
5/9/08 at 3:26pm
English and most other languages are filled with words from other languages that no longer have the narrow meaning they originally had.

And the problem with just calling something just "salad dressing" in American english is that it most often means a mayonnaise substitute like Miracle Whip. Which is creamy already though a product not to my liking.
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post #29 of 46
5/9/08 at 6:14pm
If "true" Caesar salad dressing was actually invented by Caesar Cardini, then a true Caesar salad dressing would not contain anchovies, mashed or otherwise. However, it wasn't and it does. And even if it was and it didn't, it's a much poorer salad without those little fishies.

Sorry about the gender confusion, bro. Will edit.

BDL
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post #30 of 46
5/9/08 at 6:22pm
Even Pellaprat, who was one of the founders and principal instructors of Ecole Cordon Bleu, and Escoffier allowed more freedom than you do, Steve. There is discipline, yes; but there's freedom to be had with it. In fact, each is meaningless without the other. Non? I'm so confused.

Not exactly a manicheaist,
BDL
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