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Veal/Beef and Chicken Stock

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
How do I make them with preferably supermarket avail items?

This weekend, I'm going on a Stock Making frenzy to stock up on stock (pun) for the fall and winter for soups and chili.

I've never made a stock before.

I have no ingredients. I'd like to make a really kickass batch of stocks! I have a few stock pots so that's not an issue.

can i use the left over (cooked) chicken thighs I have as part of the chicken stock?

also, some ballparks for amount of ingrediets to say....yield ~5 quarts of stock each.
post #2 of 25
For great stock you must use great ingredients. Sometimes I use leftover bits and oieces - that's for everyday stock. For serious stock and broth making, everthing is fresh and of the highest quality I can find.

This article will help you, if it doesn't confuse you ...
STOCK TIPS / Chefs offer their do's and don'ts for making this essential base
post #3 of 25
Here's my catch-all recipe for white chicken stock. It's not a particularly fussy version (let's say probably not 3-star Michelin stock) but I find it's reliable.

White chicken stock (Just find a pot big enough to fill it)

1 Large white or yellow onion (keep the skin if in good condition but I like to slice off the dry crumbly root ends and the top end)
1 large carrot (skin on, top end off)
1 celery stalk (yes, I still use celery)
1/2 leek
(all relatively rough chopped but chopped with care).

I find that the skin on the onions and carrots add additional flavour and colour

For the Sachet:
1 whole leaf of leek
3 or 4 sprigs of thyme
1 or 2 bay leaves
2 tablespoons of whole black peppercorns
a small bunch parsley stems (optional)

Approximately 2 full roaster chicken carcasses, most of the meat removed.

Submerge your chicken carcasses in cold water for an hour and drain water afterward.

Wrap your sachet spices in the leek leaf like a tamale and tie up with butcher twine (don't wrap it too tightly).

Put your carcasses in a pot and add cold cold water until the water reaches about an inch or two over the chicken carcasses. Put the pot over a flame and heat up until simmering. Skin the initial impurities from the top and continue for about 15 minutes.

Add your sachet, vegetables to the chicken and water and continue simmering while checking to skim more impurities.

Continue simmering for 4 hours.

When it is done strain the mixture through a china cap or strainer into another pot. Don't mash the chicken and other stuff to get the juices out faster, just let gravity do its work. Chill down and keep.
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
so for chicken stock...I don't roast the bones/parts first?

i have access to chicken feet and had planned on using them as well as I was going to buy and cut up (reserving and freezing the meat) a decent size chicken (I saw Wolfgang puck or Jaques Pepin butcher a chicken and take the meat/skin off whole, wanted to give it a try!!)

what should I use for the veal/beef stock. Word in the heard is veal stock is where it's at. I probably have access to MUCh less of a selection of good veal parts than say marrow bones and such.
post #5 of 25
Chicken feet is great for stock, adds flavour and a whole load of collagen. You can make dark stock (veal, chicken, etc.) by roasting your bones beforehand (I actually find that searing carcass parts on a stovetop gets you more colour and more carefully controls the cooking so you don't end up getting burnt bits).

Veal bones are generally hard to find (especially in a supermarket). I find roasted beef stock to be great as well.
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
My first "batch" will probably be with beef, since it's easier to get and less to screw up!

the chicken stock that I use for say...risotto and such, would it be better to use a dark stock or white?

my goal is to have about 5 quarts each of a beef/veal and chicken stock to freeze.

chicken feet. check.
chicken carcass. check.

veggies and herbs. check.

marrow bones. check
post #7 of 25
For beef I use bare rendering bones that are roasted until nice and brown. Roast some onions, carrots and celery along with the bones. Dump all in a large stockpot and add pepper, and herbs of choice (I usually don't add any at this point. It makes the stock more versatile.). Simmer for hours or even overnight. Strain and pour into mason jars and freeze, use some of the fat on top of each jar, it adds another layer of protection from freezer burn. I have a 15 pound box of bones in the freezer to deal with soon :lol:
post #8 of 25
Probably medium, but it depends on your druthers. A "white" stock is made with parsnip instead of carrot and really doesn't have a lot of color. Guess why they call it white. Go ahead, guess. A medium or normal stock (fond de poulet) is made with a regular onion/carrot/celery mirepoix. There is no "dark" stock, only "roasted chicken stock," aka glace de poulet. That's with the roasted bones. It has more flavor -- including BTW a little (roasted) tomato paste.

That's nice.

You can do a lot for a regular chicken stock by using those old thighs as well -- meat will add a lot to the soup (although you realize of course that you'll be tossing it afterwards). It's not exactly a standard technique, but you could poach the thights, remove them and use them for another purpose. Everything you put in the kettle helps. Don't be shy.

Big secret technique with chicken stock. Get it thouroughly scummed before you add the vegetables.

No check, visa card.

If you're looking for a "classic," French stock, I wouldn't follow Mary's recipe exactly. For one thing you need a little tomato paste in there, and for another you should hold off on the pepper

Usually not easy to find at the super. Good to call around and find for cheap. Shins are good. You can mix veal and beef, it's not that big a deal. I have a friend you paints the bones with tomato paste before roasting and gets the raw off it that way. She swears by it, but I haven't got around to trying it.

post #9 of 25
Now that you remind me I do add some tomato paste :lol: thats what I get for typing on the fly. My stock is a general purpose I need some for soup, chili, whatever.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Marrow bones I can get a plenty, for rather cheap too.....a few bucks...used to buy them in packs of 10 for my dog when I had him.

little chihuahua would tear them up!

thanks guys.
post #11 of 25
When I make stock for future use I usually use very little seasoning at all, preferring to add appropriate aromatics and such when I know what the final result will be. There's been a definite change in the weather here, cooler nights, it might be time to whip up a pot of beef and cherry stew. Perhaps I'll get a batch of bones to roast and boil over the weekend. A few photos of the process would be nice, as it is a recipe I plan to put in my little cookbook. I've never added tomato paste as part of the roasting phase, I'll have to give it a try.

Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
Food nourishes my body.  Cooking nourishes my soul.
post #12 of 25
I'm making a beef soup today using shanks. I make it specifically for my husband because this is how he likes it so here's the recipe for what it's worth. It's a traditional Cephallonian dish called Manestra (borrowed from Italians of course).

- 4 beef shanks from the market
- 1 large onion
- 1 carrot
- 2 celery ribs
- 3 small potatoes whole and pealed
- parsley stems
- 1 slice parmesan cheese rind
- 1 tbsp black peppercorns
- salt as needed
- 1 large tin of tomato puree
- 1/2 cup orzo or pasta for soup

1. Place the shanks in a pot with water exceeding the top by about 2 inches.
2. Simmer gently below the boiling point. Do not let it boil - as it comes close to boiling point remove the foamy scum on top.
3. Add the roughly chopped onion, carrot, celery, whole potatoes, parsley stems, cheese rind, peppercorns, and salt. Add enough water to cover ingredients.
4. Simmer without ever letting it boil for at least 1.5 hours, longer if you can.
5. Remove meat and potatoes and big veggies and leave to the side. Strain the broth and discard what's left in the colander.
6. At this point you can save the broth for future use or whatever soup you are intending to make or you can go on to my next step of making manestra.
7. Manestra - Add the tin of tomato puree to the broth and bring to a soft boil.
8. Add pasta and cook until al dente. Turn off the stove - the pasta will continue to cook and expand while the broth is hot. This will give a nice thickness to the broth. Taste and season accordingly.

My husband loves the overboiled meat and veggies and likes to cut them up into his soup. Especially the potatoes.:crazy: Being that there is no oil added, no roasting, and no tomato paste, this makes for a very light broth. It's just an option.

Tip - When making any kind of broth try never to bring the pot to boil. Avoiding the fierce agitation of the ingredients makes for a clearer broth. I like to think of it as gently coaxing the flavors out rather than ringing them out.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."


"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

post #13 of 25
That's a good tip. Excellent in fact. It reminds me to talk about the difference between a simmer and a low boil when I get to that part. Those few degrees make quite a difference because so much of the food being cooked has so much water in it to begin with; and it introduces the idea of "brewing" a soup in the same way as you'd brew a cup of tea or a pot (or in my case, a shot) of coffee.

By the way, it was also a fine looking soup. Make enough for me and RPM, we'll be there around 6.

post #14 of 25
I would be flattered if you liked my soup. Me I don't care for it much, but I make it with a lot of love for hubby. When we got married he asked me to promise him that I would make it for him once a month at the very least. I oblige since it's such an easy soup to make.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."


"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

post #15 of 25
RPM - see if you can get a batch of chicken necks, say a couple of pounds. I use them when I can't get the carcasses. And leave off seasoning (S&P) your stock until you actually use it for whatever dish you're planning on - the flavours can become way too concentrated. I have limited freezer space, so like to reduce mine way down, freeze it, then just add extra water when using it.

As for the veal stock, if you can't get the bones on their own, maybe use some ossobucco - depends on how extravagant you are feeling :)

Marrow bones - see if your butcher will cut them into short lengths, or if you are lucky they will come already split lengthways. Or you may have a handy bone saw. But yes, the dog bones are dirt cheap and should do well. Could even try roasting some short lengths as a separate dish - it is delish. Marrow also makes a great thickener in stews and casseroles.

Keep us posted :)
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
well, have 2 pots on the stove for about 3-4 hours now......bear with me posting pictures...I'm a few "Old-Fashioneds" in...

first off, the asian grocer I frequent, is just the best. whole coolers full of bagged chicken carcases for 1$ each....chicken feet....beef feet, you name it. Shoprite had the rest....

lets get with the beef stock pictures first...

(ok so i got a little happy and bought a lot of stuff!)

actually put the mirepoix in my le creuset and did it there...added the secret ingredient.

I pretty much followed the CIA Boot Camp cookbook recipes...but I didn't wait until the last hour to add the mirepoix.

its been on for about 3.5 hours now.....looking good.....was meticulous on skimming ....next post...the chicken stock....
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 

sure...i spent some money, around ~35$ total, but I should yield about 10 quarts. and the chicken carcasses were 1$ each. score.

with necks.

most say "ick" i say effin yum. (it's the old-fashioneds talkin'):beer:

stop.......lunch break!!! NRatched made me a nice Capicola (hot) salami and ham sandwich.

took your guys advice...didnt add mirepoix until I pretty much skimmed a couple of times...about an hour in.


next post...some more pictures.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
forgot to mention. i'm braising some pork belly for dinner too...:eek:

a recipe I stole from Jean-Georges cookbook at B&N.

also referenced a little bit of

more updates when everything is done!
post #19 of 25
Murph ! As usual great pictures I only wish I could get mine as clear as yours.
Here's a trick for skimming fat off top, Take 4 or 5 icecubes wrap them in clean towel like a teabag.Then in a circular motion skim it around the stock on the top. Most of the fat will stick to the towel because the coldness of the cubes solidify it and it sticks to towel.

P/S how do you get your pots so clean?
post #20 of 25
Finally someone else who's not afraid to use chicken feet!

If protocol allows, try blanched pig's trotters as well. Dirt-cheap and lots of natural gelatin. Turkey necks, too, when roasted give a very meaty flavour and lots of body.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty anal about a clean kitchen....mainly "barkeepers friend"....works great! you can get it at home depot or lowes or one of the kicthen/bath stores.

As far as skimming....I actually found one of my single use "gadgets" and used that....a little sifter spoon thing for powdered sugar. worked great! just skimmed, dipped in ice water, skimmed again...and done!

I just strained all of the chicken stock and put it in some tupperware in the fridge. I strained into a pot that was in an ice bath in the sink (someone told me to do that, forget who/where) so now my chicken stock is in the fridge awaiting jarring and freezing tomorrow. I have 5-6 quarts. beef stock is comming a lone good.

in other news....see my other post the main forum regarding how my pork belly came out. (and some pictures)
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
here is how the chicken stock looked...bad pictures from my other camera, but my good camera battery died...go figure! pictures make it look a tad darker.

post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
beef stock came out great. in the fridge now! pics in the morning. I'm pooped.

I made more beef stock than chicken as chicken is much easier/quicker to make so I used my bigger pot for the beef. Should last me quite a while.

demiglaze tomorrow. :D
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok, so today i took everything out of the fridge....the chicken stock barely had any fat on top. saweet.

pics make it look darker than what it is. don't feel like fiddling with adjusting it in photoshop.

Now, onto the beef stock...lots of fat to skim on this puppy. yum

a good picture.

freezer is...."stocked" ;) :lol:

the official yield ~5 quarts chicken stock, ~9 quarts beef stock.

14 quarts of stock, and I spent roughly 35%? that's not too bad. 2.50$ each for homemade stock.

still deciding if I should make a demiglaze....probably will, just not today. today, I'm ordering pizza :D j/k

hope you guys enjoyed!
post #25 of 25
Demi-glace is a good idea -- you should make it by all means. You'll need about 2.5 qts of stock, plus mirepoix, plus a little tomato paste and flour to make a quart of demi-glace. It takes a morning or an afternoon, from start to finish. You can also make chicken demi-glace which is very useful.

I'd suggest also making a cup of glace de viande -- beef and chicken. 2.5 qts will make one cup -- which should last you a few months. You actually use it in the way most people imagine they'll use demi -- as a way of adding an enormous amount of flavor quickly. It lets you shortcut a lot of water. For instance a tbs of glace in a cup of wine used as a deglaze, with some shallots, parsley and a butter finish is a very passable sauce -- which would require a lot more reduction with demi-glace.

Note the 10:1 ratio. 2 tbs dissolved in in a cup of liquid has 20% more meaty goodness than a cup of straight stock. This is one of the few ways to get to a beef/red-wine reduction and avoid the bitterness trap.

Commercial demi concentrates (like demi-gold, e.g.) are themselves much closer to glaces than to demis -- they need reconstitution to get back to the demi stage.

Just for some perspective, regular demi is not quite the improvisitional tool that glace de viande is. It is the best way to get to a certain class of compound sauces. There's been a lot of talk about it, and like espagnole it represents a milestone of learning; but the traditional "Escoffier," espagnole-demi path isn't followed as strictly or as frequently as it used to be. A lot of very good cooks make what Juilia Child called a "semi-demi," or a jus lie, or work backwards from a glace de viande. Don't get caught in the trap of thinking that however it was done in 1912 must be the right way -- or that it's necessarily dated and wrong. Each of the methods has its liabilities and strengths.

For instance, one sauce I make fairly frequently is a "barbecue bordelaise," for brisket and other which is pretty much bordelaise cut with a sweet/sour tomato sauce and a bunch of Worcestershire, etc. (that's what "normal" American barbecue sauce is by the way.) With all the tomato and other aromatic action, the background aromatics and tomato paste from the espagnole would be both overwhelmed and redundant. So glace de viande is preferred. On the other hand, if I'm making an actual bordelaise -- which I do from time to time -- the espagnole mother give a lot of subtlety and depth -- really deepening the flavor; and it's a difference that remains even if you pump other aromatics or powerful ingredients like garlic or truffle and port into the sauce.

Enjoy your stock!

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