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Cooking a roast. - Page 2

post #31 of 37
Thread Starter 
Hahaha i will have to keep that in mind! :D
post #32 of 37
Chef JP,

I understand and respect your point of view, and certainly wouldn't argue your methods and choices don't produce great results. Nevertheless, I think they're too narrow for this thread in particular.

Different cuts, including those taken from the chuck and the round work best for different things. For instance, I prefer round for sauerbraten -- one of the truly great pot roasts.

Many cuts do well for generic "brown sauce" pot roasts -- but some of them require a little extra attention because the range between underdone (tough), and overdone (stringy) can be very narrow. People with professional cooking backgrounds tend to approach the "problem of paying attention" differently than many home cooks. That is, we smell, look and prod more often and reflexively; while most home cooks rely on the clock and the buzzer. In that sense, perhaps, more forgiving is "better." Still, I'm a champion of at least three primals and of a variety of techniques, including sometimes using a jaccard, by the way.

Oven braising is far less dependent on the type of vessel used than almost any other technique -- as long as you can close it tightly. The oven itself diffuses heat very evenly. All the vessel has to do is keep the moisture and humidity in.

This is not to say that certain materials don't allow for certain variations on technique. For instance, Romertopf cooking is delicious. And heavy, well constructed casseroles allow you to sear and saute in the same pot you'll use for the braise itself. Not only convenient, but a more complete and efficient use of fond.

post #33 of 37

Using Pyrex for Braise OK

:)I must recant a slight bit on the PYREX cookware usage for a braise, especially clear glass PYREX is what I had in mind. I recently had an exchange with Harold McGee that I found enlightening and confirmed basically what I had thought but also affirmed boar_d_laze's comments also. It delt with infared radiation and oven temps. I'll cut and paste the conversation as I hope you find it informative. -JP :smiles:

__________________________________________________ ___________
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:44 PM, John P Khoury <chefjohnpaul@juno.com> wrote:Hi Hal,

Hope all is well-
Just wanted to get your feelings about braising in glass containers
such as Pyrex, especially clear- is the heat too agressive or do you
find it acceptable. I really don't use glass to cook in so wanted your
thoughts. I've always thought with the clear class there would be too
aggressive of heat and so don't use it.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:03:24 -0700 "Harold McGee" writes:

Hi JP, the heat can only be as aggressive as the source. It's true that glass passes infrared radiation, but at braising temps--at least correct ones, below 200--IR is pretty weak. Make sense? Cheers-- Hal

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:14 AM, John P Khoury wrote:
Absolutely Hal. I recently advised someone against clear glass for braising but at correct temps infrared wouldn't matter. If their oven were hotter then the clear glass might pose more of a problem- the key would be regulating the source of the heat correct? -JP

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:21:16 -0700 "Harold McGee" writes:

yes, but if the oven is off then any container will get too hot, not just glass.

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:29 AM, John P Khoury wrote:

clear glass would let the IR through quicker if the oven is too hot but the oven temp would get the same contents as hot fairly quickly in any type of vessel, correct? I guess the question I'm asking is how much of a difference the IR that the clear glass allows through would make even in a very hot oven as opposed to let's say terra cotta at the same temps. -JP

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:33:33 -0700 "Harold McGee" writes:
big enough that bakers say to beware of using pyrex pie pans--that's around 400.

John Paul Khoury wrote:
Excellent- thanks for the information Hal. I want to make sure advice or info I pass along is accurate. I will make sure I clarify my comments. I have used glass at a higher temp at home on certain things and found the results I was looking for not satisfactory and of course in the professional kitchen there is not a lot of glass cookware for other obvious reasons. Low and slow it shouldn't matter-got it. Thanks again. Best as always- JP
post #34 of 37

Interesting conversation.

In order to make sense to ordinary people it needs some discussion regarding the three major modes of heat-energy transference: Contact conduction (itself divided into several types important to cooking); Radiance (the infra-red being discussed by JP and HMcG); and Convection. This forum isn't the place.

If I were part of the conversation with McGee, one thing I'd ask about is the relative amount of available IR energy (compared to convection) to be transferred to the braise in an ordinary home oven. My understanding is that even in the 325F, 155C area (too hot!) the amount is small.

post #35 of 37

hot temps

Yes, H McGee concurs that the braise should be at about 200' under the boil for sure. I've gone 160 - 180 sous vide with exceptional results and collagen break down can happen at very low temps if the period of time is extended, in fact the enzyme that effects the myoglobin can be deactivated at lower temps if reached slowly and that's why with low slow BBQ you have meat that is well cooked but stays somewhat pink without the use of nitrites.

H. Mcgee gave 400' as a temp where the IR would I guess be noticably accellerated in glass. I have done some cooking at higher temps in glass PYREX and was not happy with the results, but not alot- at least not enough to evaluate the temp that it would noticably effect results.

I've always by habit avoided it for braises but now I will not be so picky! ;-)
post #36 of 37
Chef JP,

Nice to be on the same page.

post #37 of 37


roger that BDL.:D
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