In a recent thread, Ross asked about what knives to register for. Buzz and I started to derail the conversation by talking about traditional-style Japanese knives, which really weren’t at issue (the derailing was primarily my fault -- sorry Ross!). So, following the suggestion from Boar-d-laze, I thought I’d open a new thread.
What I said is that I thought Ross (and, to broaden things, people like him – at least, as he presents himself) should probably avoid traditional-style single-beveled Japanese knives. Buzz disagrees, citing the high-performance characteristics of gyuto.
(Incidentally, I should note that I recently wrote a longish three-part article for FoodProof about selecting and maintaining knives. There again, my audience and focus is the relative beginner, someone who really does not know much about knives and would like a practical, realistic primer. That's partly a plug, of course, but for you folks it's more a way of emphasizing where I'm coming from on this issue.)
Here are my basic points, on which I’d value your opinions and knowledge:
1. Single-beveled knives are very difficult to use according to traditional French techniques. But the average American home cook will get 99% of good information about how to cut from French traditionalists, like Jacques Pépin, Julia Child, and so forth. Thorough, precise information on using single-beveled Japanese knives is very difficult to find in English, with the limited exception of some things about cutting sashimi. Thus I think buying knives like this is problematic, in that it’s going to be difficult to learn to use them effectively.
2. The single-beveled knives I am familiar with here in Japan are all carbon steel. This makes care more difficult for the home cook, who is unlikely already to have developed good habits of wiping, scouring, rest-drying, and the like. It also makes sharpening more of an issue, in the sense that such knives will need some sharpening quite regularly.
3. Sharpening a single-beveled knife is in my opinion considerably easier than sharpening a double-edge, because you don’t have to worry about your angles much (unless you want to get into micro-beveling or something, in which case you’re not the sort of user/purchaser we’re talking about here). This assumes, of course, that you are buying these knives from a shop that will already have put an appropriate bevel on to begin with, and I see a number of things in other forums suggesting that this isn’t always the case. But in any event, let’s remember how few home cooks actually sharpen their knives at all, or have a clue how to go about it. Some run a knife on a steel every once in a while and figure they are sharpening. If something gets so blunt it’s unusable, the normal plan is either (a) throw it away, or (b) send it to a hardware store. Even assuming that nobody in his right mind is going to throw away a hand-forged knife just because it’s a bit blunt, I worry about option (b): I have been very unimpressed by hardware-store sharpening that I have encountered, and I am quite sure that such sharpeners are unlikely to know much about single-edged knives. I hate to think what would happen if someone tried to resharpen a knife like this by putting on the regulation 15-20 degrees on both sides! So unless you are going to learn to sharpen, and sharpen well, at home, which is a considerable investment of time and money (for stones and such), I worry that such knives won’t be satisfactory. If you are going to learn to do basic sharpening, terrific! But bear in mind again that the vast majority of what you’re going to be told is going to refer to double-edged knives, and will not apply at all to single-edged knives.
4. Someone who is asking a very broad-ranging question about “what’s a good knife?” is, I think, not someone who already knows a whole lot about the subject. As a result, I think such a person should buy an excellent, very standard sort of knife, something that will reward good habits and not punish bad ones excessively, which is also easy and forgiving to care for. To my mind, we’re talking about a standard French chef’s knife, or perhaps a santoku, costing on the order of $125, from a respectable, reliable knifemaker like Wusthof, Sabatier, and so on.
5. My ideal for such a person would be this: He or she acquires a small number of good-quality knives and begins using them for absolutely everything. Knife skills, sharpening and care, basic maintenance, all these things build over time, because the cook is using these knives consistently rather than trying a million things randomly, and with any luck the cook is also doing a little reading, viewing, studying, or whatever on how to cut (which again will make single-beveled knives tricky...). If in 3-5 years this person has come to the conclusion that a different knife is desirable, for whatever reason, he or she will have extremely clear reasons for this preference. Thus he or she will be able either to ask very precise questions, or to go straight to a good knife shop and do some intelligent selection, and will get just what he or she actually wants. That might be a thin-bladed exotic Japanese steel knife, it might be a hand-forged single-edged knife, it might be a larger or smaller or differently-weighted French chef’s knife, who knows? Regardless, that person will now be buying what is currently best for his or her hand and arm and skill.
I suppose I worry too much. But with all the excitement about Japanese steel these days, I fear that a lot of folks are dropping big chunks of change on things they cannot or will not use effectively. My local knife shop is Aritsugu, in Kyoto, and I know for a fact that the cheap end of their deba range costs about $140, and rises sharply from there. Yanagiba are somewhat more, rising to unbelievably more (about $1500 for a non-special-order job). Usuba are a fraction cheaper, but not by much. Plus shipping to the US, and customs, you’re talking about a lot of money, and Aritsugu is not one of the shops that is jacking its overseas prices, as a number of places have been doing.
In passing, I should note that Ross is left-handed, which often but not always makes Japanese single-beveled knives more expensive, but since that is specific to Ross and an increasingly uncommon practice anyway, I just put it to one side.
Ultimately, though, I am certainly not saying that nobody should buy knives like this. Heck, I just bought a beautiful Aritsugu deba, and I apologize to no one for doing so. But I knew exactly what I was getting, I have a number of good Japanese texts and videos and such about how to use a deba effectively, and I have a neighbor who’s the chef at a well-reviewed kaiseki place and he’s going to be giving me some lessons. For me, then, yes, it makes sense. Maybe for you too. But not, I think, if you are someone who’s asking what to register for.
So I’ve said my piece. What do you think?
Chris
(donning flak jacket and diving for cover...)
What I said is that I thought Ross (and, to broaden things, people like him – at least, as he presents himself) should probably avoid traditional-style single-beveled Japanese knives. Buzz disagrees, citing the high-performance characteristics of gyuto.
(Incidentally, I should note that I recently wrote a longish three-part article for FoodProof about selecting and maintaining knives. There again, my audience and focus is the relative beginner, someone who really does not know much about knives and would like a practical, realistic primer. That's partly a plug, of course, but for you folks it's more a way of emphasizing where I'm coming from on this issue.)
Here are my basic points, on which I’d value your opinions and knowledge:
1. Single-beveled knives are very difficult to use according to traditional French techniques. But the average American home cook will get 99% of good information about how to cut from French traditionalists, like Jacques Pépin, Julia Child, and so forth. Thorough, precise information on using single-beveled Japanese knives is very difficult to find in English, with the limited exception of some things about cutting sashimi. Thus I think buying knives like this is problematic, in that it’s going to be difficult to learn to use them effectively.
2. The single-beveled knives I am familiar with here in Japan are all carbon steel. This makes care more difficult for the home cook, who is unlikely already to have developed good habits of wiping, scouring, rest-drying, and the like. It also makes sharpening more of an issue, in the sense that such knives will need some sharpening quite regularly.
3. Sharpening a single-beveled knife is in my opinion considerably easier than sharpening a double-edge, because you don’t have to worry about your angles much (unless you want to get into micro-beveling or something, in which case you’re not the sort of user/purchaser we’re talking about here). This assumes, of course, that you are buying these knives from a shop that will already have put an appropriate bevel on to begin with, and I see a number of things in other forums suggesting that this isn’t always the case. But in any event, let’s remember how few home cooks actually sharpen their knives at all, or have a clue how to go about it. Some run a knife on a steel every once in a while and figure they are sharpening. If something gets so blunt it’s unusable, the normal plan is either (a) throw it away, or (b) send it to a hardware store. Even assuming that nobody in his right mind is going to throw away a hand-forged knife just because it’s a bit blunt, I worry about option (b): I have been very unimpressed by hardware-store sharpening that I have encountered, and I am quite sure that such sharpeners are unlikely to know much about single-edged knives. I hate to think what would happen if someone tried to resharpen a knife like this by putting on the regulation 15-20 degrees on both sides! So unless you are going to learn to sharpen, and sharpen well, at home, which is a considerable investment of time and money (for stones and such), I worry that such knives won’t be satisfactory. If you are going to learn to do basic sharpening, terrific! But bear in mind again that the vast majority of what you’re going to be told is going to refer to double-edged knives, and will not apply at all to single-edged knives.
4. Someone who is asking a very broad-ranging question about “what’s a good knife?” is, I think, not someone who already knows a whole lot about the subject. As a result, I think such a person should buy an excellent, very standard sort of knife, something that will reward good habits and not punish bad ones excessively, which is also easy and forgiving to care for. To my mind, we’re talking about a standard French chef’s knife, or perhaps a santoku, costing on the order of $125, from a respectable, reliable knifemaker like Wusthof, Sabatier, and so on.
5. My ideal for such a person would be this: He or she acquires a small number of good-quality knives and begins using them for absolutely everything. Knife skills, sharpening and care, basic maintenance, all these things build over time, because the cook is using these knives consistently rather than trying a million things randomly, and with any luck the cook is also doing a little reading, viewing, studying, or whatever on how to cut (which again will make single-beveled knives tricky...). If in 3-5 years this person has come to the conclusion that a different knife is desirable, for whatever reason, he or she will have extremely clear reasons for this preference. Thus he or she will be able either to ask very precise questions, or to go straight to a good knife shop and do some intelligent selection, and will get just what he or she actually wants. That might be a thin-bladed exotic Japanese steel knife, it might be a hand-forged single-edged knife, it might be a larger or smaller or differently-weighted French chef’s knife, who knows? Regardless, that person will now be buying what is currently best for his or her hand and arm and skill.
I suppose I worry too much. But with all the excitement about Japanese steel these days, I fear that a lot of folks are dropping big chunks of change on things they cannot or will not use effectively. My local knife shop is Aritsugu, in Kyoto, and I know for a fact that the cheap end of their deba range costs about $140, and rises sharply from there. Yanagiba are somewhat more, rising to unbelievably more (about $1500 for a non-special-order job). Usuba are a fraction cheaper, but not by much. Plus shipping to the US, and customs, you’re talking about a lot of money, and Aritsugu is not one of the shops that is jacking its overseas prices, as a number of places have been doing.
In passing, I should note that Ross is left-handed, which often but not always makes Japanese single-beveled knives more expensive, but since that is specific to Ross and an increasingly uncommon practice anyway, I just put it to one side.
Ultimately, though, I am certainly not saying that nobody should buy knives like this. Heck, I just bought a beautiful Aritsugu deba, and I apologize to no one for doing so. But I knew exactly what I was getting, I have a number of good Japanese texts and videos and such about how to use a deba effectively, and I have a neighbor who’s the chef at a well-reviewed kaiseki place and he’s going to be giving me some lessons. For me, then, yes, it makes sense. Maybe for you too. But not, I think, if you are someone who’s asking what to register for.
So I’ve said my piece. What do you think?
Chris
(donning flak jacket and diving for cover...)
