MAC Pro vs MAC Ultimate

The Ultimate is advertised as using superior steel to the Professional, but in fact it's a small difference. The Ultimate's bevel shows a lot more handwork than the Professional, but at the end of the day the knife will carry the edge you put on it.

I think there was a thread on this forum (but it may have been on one of the knife forums I participate in) where the owner changed the factory edge on his MAC Pro to a 10*/15* double bevel (with 50/50 symmetry) and pushed the Pro's performance to the Misono UX-10 level -- which is as good as the Ultimate.

The Ultimate has better cosmetics, with inscribed Kanji script.

Otherwise, I don't feel there's a lot of difference between the Ultimate and the Pro. I'm a big fan of MACs personally; and feel the Pro, although not without worthy competitors, is a great choice for a home or pro cook. Especially one who's looking for a lot of stiffness in the blade.

In our PM discussion I wrote a darn treatise on sharpening stone sets without really answering your question. Rod guides are good systems, and you certainly don't need to learn to freehand -- although freehanding has its benefits. The most important of those kind of evaporate if all your knives are sharpened to the same profile. I don't know how your new MACs are going to fit within the context of the rest of current and future set -- so that's open.

More specifically the Lansky deluxe diamond kit is at least a good start. The MAC can benefit from a higher polish than the Lansky gives. As rod-guide systems go, the Lansky is mid level. The next step up is the Apex Edge Pro (system 2), which is a big step in terms of both quality and price.

The Idahone fine ceramic hone seems to be the current best "steel" on the market for overall value. The 12" runs under $30. Such a deal.

BTW, the MAC 10" bread knife is one of the two best at any price (the other costs 4 times as much), even though it's not in the Professional series. Buy it, you'll have it forever.

Another knife line you might want to look at is Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef. IIRC, I gave you a link to their catalog. If I didn't: ???????????. Their very much in line with MACs, slightly lighter and more flexible than the Pros, and made with a wonder steel (AEB-L) which takes an amazing edge. Similar incredbily good ergonomics, and a complete range of lengths and profiles if you want matching knives. I know four guys who have them and nothing but raves. The closest thing to a complaint I've heard is from one guy who's a sharpening maven, got fancy with re-profiling, and doesn't like his profile as much as liked the factory's. I've heard finer whines. The only way I know to actually buy one online is to order through Seito Trading, just tell them which model numbers you want and they'll give you a price, then get them from Japan for you. The Grand Chefs are priced comparably to MAC Professionals. Here's a link to Seito, Japanese Knives And Restaurant Supplies: Japanese Knives The person you'll correspond with there is Pam; as people go, she's one of the good ones.

BDL

Sharpening isn't that big a deal. You need two stones to start and a couple of old knives for practice. Information on how it's done is available all over the place and you will find your own individual technique.

BDLs recommendation regarding the Mac Bread Knife (SB-105) should be taken seriously. Put that one in the "get this" category.

Also, I have a couple of Takayuki Grand Cheff Petties of which BDL spoke and I think it may be the best steel ever for home cooks. I've been beating one up chopping like crazy and the edge doesn't seem to want to chip. I usually keep my edges going as long as possible with a strop but for the last week or so I've been using a ceramic steel when the edge loses its "bite". The edge comes right back. I'm very impressed and have a Japanese handled Gyuto on special order with Seito. Seito has more in stock than is shown on their site. Call Pam Otomo and ask.

Buzz

I have the Mac Pro 9.5 inch Chefs knife, and it's a great blade, You wont be dissappointed.


So tell me guys, whats so good about the Mac bread knife?

Good steel. MAC handle (and you know what that means). Nice angle (better than an offset). Reverse set on the teeth.

BDL

The top one, 10011 - 10016. It is the thinnest and you probably do not want to get anything more thick. As you said, with the thicker ones you'd be headed back toward German geometry and thin is one of the reasons Japanese Gyutos perform so well in the first place. Less friction. The thicker knives aren't explained well on the Takayuki site. Without having seen one, I would hazard a guess that they are Deba shaped with an edge more designed for fish bones and hard skinned fruit and vegetables. Call Pam at Seito and ask her. I would think she should know.

The #10001 90mm (3.54") utility knife should make a good parer. The rest are too long, at least for me.

About 4 years ago I went to the headquarters for MAC knives USA. I spent a couple of hours with Harold Arimoto (the owner and hands on man in charge), talking and trying knives in all their different lines (including professional and ultimate). We even chopped vegies, sliced, diced, made tomato roses, etc. etc. etc. All in all, a most informative and enlightening session. I purchased a couple of knives in the professional line, a dimpled chef's knife and a santoku. They have been in continuous use in professional kitchens ever since and I am still extremely happy with them. As to sharpening them, Harold recommended a rollsharp and nothing else. I was very skeptical having used stones for 30 years, but figured that I could give his recommendation a shot. Same thing as knives, extremely satisfied.

I'd be happy to comment. The damascus "look" is for looks only and there is no effect on performance. All it usually does is raise the price.

Secondly, and more importantly, the reason the Takayuki Grand Cheff models were recommended was because of the steel from which they are made, Swedish Uddeholm AEB-L razor blade steel. The damascus clad knives are made from something else. I've never looked into it as the only thing that attracted me to Takayuki in the first place was the AEB-L availability. There aren't many knives outside the custom world made of that stuff.

Buzz

If you want to turn a non damascus knife into a showpiece you can have a custom handle put on it later on. For the time being, you merely need to get a quality knife into your kitchen and learn how to care for it. Knives like this bring great pleasure. I would hardly ever cook if it weren't for the fun I have with my cutlery. ;)

Buzz

A great core set of knives. Can't go wrong with Shapton GS either. Nice pick on the boroslicate rod.

The Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef has a single, flat (as opposed to convex), ~15* bevel on each side. IIRC, The factory symmetry is loaded towards the right handed cook -- although Buzz would know for sure. The blade steel, AEB-L, at the particular level of hardening Takayuki employs, HrC 58-59, makes them very easy to sharpen, and similarly easy to profile -- if, for instance you want to sharpen them to 50/50 symmetry.

I have a friend who "thinned" a Grand Chef 240mm chef's knife and says the original, factory bevel worked better. Personally, I'd stick with the 15* edge angle for the first four or five sharpenings, then layer a 10* angle underneath, with a 15* angle on top -- on each side. That profile, which splits the difference between serious "thinning" and a double bevel, should last for at least a couple of years, and make the 15* angle very easy to maintain.

(Many people call the compound angles a "double bevel" with the 10* angle the "secondary bevel," and the 15* edge angle the "primary bevel." Although terminology differs -- so make sure you know what the other person means when you have the sharpening discussion. Sharpening jargon is, alas, not standardized.)

BDL