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Bread rising and final loaf shape

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Does the shape of a bowl used for bread rising have an effect on its final shape, the shape of its crown.

Would using a tall, narrow bowl for bread rising ultimately result in a taller loaf of bread as opposed to using a wider and shorter bowl?

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #2 of 9
Only indirectly. If proofed in woven baskets, and merely removed from them onto the baking surface, they'll retain the marks of the baskets in a decorative manner.

But in practical terms, the size & shape of the container only effects the size and shape of the bread if it is baked in the container. That is, you use a baking pan and get a sandwich loaf shape. Etc.
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
My loaves are transferred from the rising container to the peel, they're then slashed and placed onto a preheated baking stone. Some loaves have a good crown and still other just okay and all the loaves have suitable size holes and taste good. It's just that the oven spring is better on some than others.

I'm wondering if the "crowning" problem relates to tightness of the skin.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #4 of 9
Probably sometimes, definitely not others.

We're talking about either boule or miche, right? And the "rising container" is a round bowl or banneton which creates the boule shape?

A tight skin helps the loaf hold its shape, and thereby rise as much as spread during the "oven spring" expansion. Buy you know that. Things being what they are with varying environmental conditions and the need to keep as much air as possible in the dough during formation, it's hard to be really consistent on skin tigthness. I suppose if you formed dozens of loaves every day in a warm room of near constant humidity (like a bakery), you'd get very much alla time same same. But for the rest of us, not so much.

Don't hate me,
BDL
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http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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What were we talking about?
 
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post #5 of 9
Presuming it isn't a wet dough, a tight skin can definately help. The key word there is "can." It doesn't always. But it will almost always assure that the bread rises upwards more than outwards.

As BDL notes, though, consistency from one loaf to another can be problematical. Most of us just don't make enough bread, under controlled conditions, to have every loaf resemble every other one.
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
I've literally spent many sleepless nights over the past 7 or 8 years trying to figure out what I did correctly to achieve that great crown that occurs about 1 in 20 loaves, to no avail. I suppose that for me or us 'nonbakers', what a well trained baker does or learns in a day takes us at least a full year to acquire, if at all. For many nights I agonized over not being able to achieve a consistent loaf. I guess I can sleep, now, knowing that practise makes perfect; what it takes to make a good looking loaf is making bread in large quantities alongside a master breadmaker, because breadmaking is based on thousands of years of observation and experience that cannot be passed on thru books. Nothing beats hands-on. Now, I can get a good night's sleep.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #7 of 9
That's always something that has intrigued me too! My loaves usually taste great but again come out with some bizarre shapes, whatever I do differently or the same! It's nice to know it's not so much in my control...
post #8 of 9
Some shapes make consistency easier. A batard takes more handling than a miche, but once it's formed (with as much air left in the dough as possible) it will almost always give you that crown. Probably a result of a really tight skin. Batard is my default loaf choice.

My favorite for loaf-pans breads is the heart shaped top of the sandwich loaf. Why? Because of the partial punch-down forming the channel down the long axis of the loaf.

Anyway...
BDL
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http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
I use brotforms from Fantes.com, especially the 17 inch rectangular one pictured here:

Brotforms, Brotformen or Bannetons

FWIW what has helped the most with my breadmaking, in addition to the posts here, are some of the breakbaking dvds offered by King Arthur. I must state with great emphasis that nothing, absolutely nothing beats actually watching a master breadmaker at work as evidenced by KA's dvd entitled Sourdough Breads I by Ciril Hitz, instructor at J&W in Rhode Island. In addition to creating the starter, the master gives great demonstrations in skin forming, loaf shaping and slashing that books and verbage just can't convey sufficiently. I'm a 'visual' person.

And secondly as I've posted before, the KA dvd called Artisan Breadmaking by Michael Jubinsky set me straight better that any book because now, every loaf is a success inspite of a, perhaps, occasional low profile appearrance. All that matters is like we say here in the south when it comes to barbecue: when IT hits your taste buds, how does it taste?!?!?

Now, a hundred loaves later, I reference my breadbooks for achieving variations on a theme and totally new creations. (I'm not a shareholder in KA, either.) :bounce:

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Reply
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