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Bill in Texas for legal home bakeries - Page 2

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post

Absolutely not one difference between baking, catering, having paid guests to the house. Same coolers only no commercial inspectionthe house.

 I had a 4 hr talk with my wife last night and we decided if the bill passes here or they don't do something about the home people we are

out. The aggrivation and the lack of support from the professional community it's not worth it at our age.



That's a damn shame. You're too good to go.

 

I did just have a legal question though. Is there a difference between a tort of food poisoning if they are paying for it or if they are just social guests?

post #32 of 51

 

This was joie I think.      He or she has the balls to put down professional pastry chef.  Blaintly breaking the law. Paying no taxes. and there is 1000s more like her.

"I am a home-based baker and I make quite a bit of money, in the upper 1,000's per month on specialty cakes. All by word-of-mouth, around 15 cakes per month, as a side job. All of my customers sign a contract stating they understand I'm a home-based bakery and that I assume no liability or make any guarantees since I'm not regulated. We have full disclosure of our practices to our clients and it is the customers' choice to choose me in the end."

 

This contract thing tells me shes even stupider then posting her criminal activities in a public forum.

 

tin

In this state you can't prepare or serve the public from home. Some tried to get around it by saying the were friends or it was free. they were fined.

Let me clarify my statement about professional support. That's mainly hotel, resort caterers, financial institutions, etc.

 

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post #33 of 51

Under California law, there is no mention of "money changing hands" in the definition of a "food preparation facility", sell or give it away from an unlicensed facility and you are violating the law.

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post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Posttin

In this state you can't prepare or serve the public from home. Some tried to get around it by saying the were friends or it was free. they were fined.

Let me clarify my statement about professional support. That's mainly hotel, resort caterers, financial institutions, etc.

 

Er, what I mean is:

Take three different scenarios

a) I run a legal bakery and one of my customers gets food poisoning

b) I run an illegal/uninspected bakery out of my house, and one of my customers gets food poisoning

c) I don't run any sort of food business, but I baked a cake for my kids birthday party and one of the guests gets food poisoning from it.

Would it make any difference when I get sued for food poisoning by the guy that got sick?

 

The one cases and legal principles I can remember involve businesses that haven't registered to do business in the state. It means, inter alia, that you loose court priviledges. But I only remember that in relation to the unregistered business bringing suit. There was a nasty case we studied in business law class about that. A water park operator brought in an out of state pool contractor to build an attraction. The water park refused to pay the contractor. Contractor sued, but got tossed out of court because the contractor didn't register with the state to do business.
 

 

post #35 of 51

It's really up to a jury panel or the judge

#1. would be resolved by the bakeries insurance

#2. If there is anything exceeding court costs like house, cars, future income,attached family monies a suit is likely.

#3. I only know of one case where this happened with a dinner. The homeowners ins. came in to cover fixed med bill. like 5-10,000.

       Judge determained the amounts requested were to large and pushed for reasonable agreement. Eventually thrown out.

 

Thing is, when your not legal, you can't get insurance, you can't pay taxes fed st etc. You're out there naked. They don't realize how easy it is to loose everything.

We started to do some research. th e first 26 Cake websites that come up here locally 14 are legal. The otheres flying under the radar.

 the local shops are not stupid. We've sent people to them for tastings. They all spout we're cheaper because of no overhead. Now, something interesting,

you can actually receive monies from the federal gov't by referring non paying tax people to them. interesting?

You might say I'm jelouse of these people. I am a little, these are certainly not people avoiding welfare and such. Beautiful homes.etc.

I can deal with legal competition. Hell Sprinkles Cupcakes moved into the same center as us. We beefed up and welcomed them and it's been good for us.

Being ambushed  from all sides really doesn't give you a chance for victory. I've already been associated with one lost war can't do another.
 

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post #36 of 51

Maybe what we need is a squad of attorney bounty hunters to go after illegal home bakers. It seems to work pretty well when they go after legal restaurants for bogus Americans with Disability Act complaints.

post #37 of 51

cakegirl88   are you legal?

 

crestview, none of us sell over the internet.  You forgot to mention that you can make up to 250,000.  Yes thoudsand Before inspection by the local health dept. which

doesn't have the man power or funds to handle what they have. We pay 200. to have them come inspect every 6 mths.

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post #38 of 51

Lawsuits (food for lawyers)  If I eat dinner in your house and get sick and food poiso.ned, I can sue you  Anyone can sue anyone for anything if they want. 

Here is one and it is true. I once was chef in a catering facility on Long Island. We had an outdoor terrace, cocktail party was outside and a guest got stung by a bee.He sued us and won. Judge ruled;

        ' "If you are permitting guest to use your  terrace, then it becomes your responsability  to make  make sure it is a safe enviorment for the guest""

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #39 of 51

That's crazy. At least they changed the laws pertaining to natural thing like nut shells. Can't sue for that. 9 yrs. ago had someone sue me for a pecan shell in a brownie.

Turned out the tooth was already broken, she ended getting all her teeth work done thanks to my insurance co.

 

I'm thinking a couple of cheesy lawyers and a wacky chef raiding these uninspected places would make a pretty good reality show. Involve the bride, no cakeeek.gif

a legal bakery saving the daybiggrin.gif

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post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by panini View Post

I'm thinking a couple of cheesy lawyers and a wacky chef raiding these uninspected places would make a pretty good reality show. Involve the bride, no cakeeek.gif

a legal bakery saving the daybiggrin.gif


OMG! It could be like a cross between Kitchen Nightmare and The Untouchables.

 

post #41 of 51

Great!!!

you know Tin I know a few people associated with filming and food.They lurk around here sometimes.

 

How about we Repo the cake!!

OMG Bridezilla gets her cake Repoed for using an illegal bakery!

The cupcake competition judges, you know the masculine looking one they dug up from under a rock. And maybe the tomato sauce guy to save the day.

The Health Department Women of Dallas!!

 

I know we can bring the bad cakes to Ted Nugents Ranch and blow the hell out of them.biggrin.gif


Edited by panini - 6/13/11 at 5:10pm
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post #42 of 51

Heh, I can just see our bakery agents raiding a wedding reception and taking fire axes to the baked goods.

 

Another story from the files of Cake Squad :rofl:

post #43 of 51

Remember McDonalds got sued for hot coffee. My question is what constitutes hot? I can pick up plates that most can't but I can't handle cold anymore.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #44 of 51

I think Texas has done the right thing - sorry to hear the mantra from some business owners who cut on home bakers and instill fear in the public for so-called safety concerns. I want to know how so many restaurants, bakeries, etc. stay open and they are FILTHY. How do they pass inspections? And this isn't just a few places!

 

Texas has set it up so that home baked goods may be sold, but the point of sale must be at the house. This gives the potential buyer the opportunity to see  the facility they are buying from. We are big people now and should have the right to buy from a dirty or clean facility, whether it be at home or a commercial facility. This is called freedom and it is a beautiful thing. The Texas law also allows individuals to test the market with their product(s) -  I guarantee they will be moving out of the home if they make a hit.

 

I think the nastiness comes from those who are threatened because they have inferior goods or facilities. A business owner who strives to be clean, honest, serves quality food, and offers the public very best in customer service has nothing to worry about:)

post #45 of 51

Thank you Homesweethome!!! I am a home baker. I make decorated cakes and wedding cakes for friends, and friends of friends. My "business" is mostly word of mouth which is difficult since we move fairly often for my husband's career. It is definitely my hobby, I might make 5 - 20 cakes in a whole year!  It's definitely not for the money, its a creative outlet!

 

I keep my kitchen very clean - even if I'm not baking, why would I want the possibility of me getting sick from what I cook? Duh!! When I have a "contract" for a cake, the entire kitchen is cleared and cleaned before I start. We keep our water heater on a hig setting - I like things clean - and I also wear a clean outfit while I bake - if I go out I change into another clean outfit before resuming work on my cakes. I use fresh ingredients and keep them at the proper temperatures. I make quality cakes using recipes from Rose Levy Beranbaum, Dede Wilson, Toba Garrett, Collete Peters, and Sylvia Weinstock. I make sugar dough flowers following the methods of Nicholas Lodge. My cakes are beautiful, but more importantly they taste fabulous and are safe!

 

I have seen commercial establishments whose kitchens make me cringe - filthy and the staff appears unkempt and unwashed! I think the cakes made in my kitchen far surpass anything from those establishments!!

 

I am extremely offended that others on this site insinuate that home bakers are all miserable substitutes for their elite skills and that we all fall short of their perfection!! Not all commercial establishments are the same, why should all home bakers be??

 

 

post #46 of 51

For me, it has nothing to do with cleanliness, ability, skill, or desire, it is simply a matter as to what is legal and what is not!

 

In the State of California, it is not legal to cook for others in your own residential kitchen, regardless as to cleanliness, equipment, whatever, you, by law, must work out of a licensed, inspected, food preparation facility, period. You may cook in a client's kitchen for a client.

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post #47 of 51

I understand being legal Pete. I'm in Texas. Just got back here and will certainly do what I need to to be legal! I was referring to the posts that infer that all home bakers provide inferior quality products!! That's what I take exception to.

post #48 of 51

Mmm, most of the comments I'm aware of have little to do with "quality" and a lot to do with, in the opinion of many, "unfair competition" in that many home bakers do not incur the multitude of costs and regulations of commercial bakeries, i.e. health permits, business licenses, sales taxes, rent, building regulations, and so forth.

 

With regards to "quality", IMHO there are probably good and bad bakers, whether home or commercial. Same goes with cleanliness.

 

Food safety is another genre altogether, I've never seen a residential kitchen with a three compartment sink, separate hand wash sink(s), and NSF equipment. Does that make home bakers less safe? Not  necessarily, but it makes food safety far more difficult in a residential situation.

 

And then there are pets, children, and others traipsing through the kitchen, another entirely separate subject.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakebaker11 View Post

I understand being legal Pete. I'm in Texas. Just got back here and will certainly do what I need to to be legal! I was referring to the posts that infer that all home bakers provide inferior quality products!! That's what I take exception to.



 

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post #49 of 51

You know, I am glad the bill passed, but I am shocked at some of the "professionals'" views on this law. Let me put it in simple terms....back when my parents grew up we did not have all this legislation. We didn't need a permit to get a permit and I don't recall many instances of people dying from home-baked goods for those trying to start an honest at home business. It is completely silly to think that those who have a venue are cleaner than most because the Government tells them they have to be... People do have common sense.

 

In all honesty, I think some of you need to get out of your Liberal way of thinking that is affecting this country as a whole...but I wont get into that....or do you need the government to govern where you can purchase your food from, by whom, or who can make what? If you feel that you need to be babysat, then to each their own...

post #50 of 51

I don't think anyone is commenting on "cleanliness" as a condition of preparing food for public consumption; it's more a matter of licensing.  A licensed business can be inspected at any time; an unlicensed business cannot.  Cleanliness shouldn't be confused with carelessness; if you don't wash correctly or store them properly, people can get sick.  A while ago, a retail bakery was storing cream filled pastries at room temperature; the pastries were sold and two elderly people who ate the pastries became ill and died. This sort of thing can happen anywhere - at a licensed business or an unlicensed one.

 

The government has been involved in where you purchase your food from for a long time.  Even supermarkets are regulated by heath dept codes, even if they don't have a prepared foods department.  How they handle produce, dairy, everything - all of that the government is involved in, in making sure it is safe for public consumption.

 

I don't think retail bakeries are threatened by at-home businesses; there is only so much you can produce in a residential kitchen.  But a level playing field is only fair and you can't argue with that: home based businesses should follow the same regulations, get the same permits, file the same taxes, meet the same standards that any other facility producing food for public consumption has to meet.  And that goes far beyond simple cleanliness.

post #51 of 51

IMHO, it is simply economics, home based businesses generally do not have the same expenses as regular businesses, i.e.

  • Rent
  • Health permits
  • Fire permits
  • Hood inspections
  • Grease traps
  • triple sinks
  • seamless floors and walls
  • floor sinks, for air gaps in all drain connections
  • explosion-proof lighting fixtures
  • fire insurance (generally, homeowner's insurance does not cover commercial activities)
  • liability insurance (see fire insurance)
  • cost of NSF equipment, refrigerators, freezers, stoves, ovens, mixers, etc.
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