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Organic Fish

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I was just wondering what everyones take is on organic fish. There seems to be some debate about what should be labled organic. some people feel that wild fish is organic while the agriculture department feels the only way for it to be labled as organic is for fish to be farmed raised.There are two articles, one from the New york Times and the other from the Washington Post, on the subject. The Washington Post seems to clear it up and the New York Times article solves nothing.I tried to link the articles but I couldn't, and i do realize that one is from 2006 and the other is from 2008
I feel that wild fish is organic but that all depends on where it is caught.
would you rather eat fish from alaska, maine, or the east river in new york. Would you consider all three to be organic? Its a tough answer, i'm not sure if i would eat wild east river fish or consider it organic.
post #2 of 21
Personally, I would label the fish as "wild" and specify where it was caught, rather than "organic", even if it may technically be so. It's funny you mention this, the other day the chef in our a la carte restaurant was just complaining to me how his seafood vendor refuses to tell him where their wild-caught fish come from. I find that a little disconcerting!
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
if the vendor is not telling him where it comes from then its time to get a new vendor.
post #4 of 21
That's my opinion, but I think the price is right and he's cutting corners.
post #5 of 21
In Australia we still don't have any legislation pertaining to this, so ANYTHING can be called organic.
post #6 of 21
How can fish from the ocean, not farms, be considered anything but "organic"?
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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post #7 of 21
Fish are like sponges for anything toxic in the body of water it inhabits. There are lakes and rivers in my area (New England) where there are signs posted on the beaches warning pregnant women not to eat the fish due to mercury content. These rivers all empty right into the Long Island Sound, as do much fouler rivers from New York City. Whether or not the fish in the Sound are legally organic is a moot point as far as I'm concerned, since their "organic" environment is as toxic as anything that could possibly come out of a farm.
post #8 of 21
Pregnant women have been warned for 15 years not to eat Tuna, Billfish and Sailfish because of mercury levels. Ppl have been warmed for 20 years not to eat fish out of many water shed in the NE part of the country. That's not the question though, how can fish that roam the ocean freely not be organic?
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
post #9 of 21
Cause they are ingesting man made chemicals that have been dumped into the ocean??
post #10 of 21
I'm not sure how it could be any more clear. Ingesting large amounts of harmful chemicals seems to sharply contrast the spirit of eating organic, whether or not it satisfies the legal definition. Avoiding such chemicals is the whole point of eating organic (other than concerns about GMO's, which is unrelated and less important imho).
post #11 of 21
The whole concept of organic is that there's a verifiable paper trail regarding every aspect and history of said organic item.
Therefore, it's almost impossible to label a wild fish organic...you simply don't know what the fish ingested in its ifetime.

Aquaculture gives the organic concept a platform at least. They can prove organic feed etc.

The USDA does not yet have rules regarding organic seafood because of this dilemma.
But they do recognize organic seafood from other countries that have organic seafood standards. Scottish Farm Raised salmon for example.....some is certified organic...so it can be called that here in the U.S.

It should all be figured out here within the next couple years.
post #12 of 21
This is absurd. Since when is mercury a man made chemical? Ever heard of volcanic eruption?...guess what those release into the atmosphere?

The guidance on women and seafood is horribly misguided.

...and why doesn't the mercury kill the fish? Because these fish (mainly older bigger fish) also have high levels of selenium...and there is strong scientific evidence emerging that, even in humans, selenium allows the living body to pass the mercury through the system in an unharmful manner.
Without the presence of selenium, the body will accumulate it and that's when it becomes harmful.

This whole issue is a travesty...seafood is great brain food....we should be finding ways to eat more,not less.
post #13 of 21
This is a pretty shoddy argument. The trace amounts don't kill the fish because they are trace amounts. Eating lots of fish containing a trace amount builds up until you have no longer ingested a trace amount. This effect is how fish which are higher on the food chain and eat more fish themselves have the highest mercury content when caught. And there are plenty of worse things in the water which DO kill fish that I don't have any interest in ingesting.

The hazardous amounts of mercury which occur in the water in New England are not "naturally occurring", they are the result of decades of unregulated dumping of industrial and sewage waste directly into the water. You are free to downplay the toxicity of mercury based on it's natural occurrence, but if you drink a glass of it you are still going to die. Note that my concern in the previous post was not whether or not it was "man made", but whether or not it is "harmful". Which it is. There is no serious debate on this issue.

I totally agree that we should be finding ways to eat more fish. The health benefits, poison additives aside, are significant. I suggest not turning the water in which they live into a marinade of feces and industrial run-off as a starting point for increasing their consumption.

Mercury (element) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
post #14 of 21
Cool.
I'm all for clean water.
Perhaps I was just debating myself...lol
post #15 of 21
Doesnt raising something in a pen defeat the purpose of being organic, having the ability to roam freely in its natural habitat?

As for the Mercury intake, millions of Japanese women have been eating copious amounts of RAW TUNA and other fish that have so called "dangerous levels of mercury in them" for generations and I dont think there has been a reduction in the population, or a spike in birth defects due to ingesting Mercury or any other fish for that matter. Dont get me wrong, I am all for and support the cleaning of our water sheds and am a supporter of several fish and wildlife organizations that help in doing just that, but the arguement with Mercury is not a very strong one.
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
post #16 of 21
"Organic" has no regard for the welfare of the animal. "Biodynamic" is a much fairer system if you're looking at things in that respect.
post #17 of 21
Mercury is good for you. I saw a program on the news in which a the news lady said mercury is good for you. its so good for you that they are now putting it in high fructose Corn Syrup. From what I have read its used in the process of making HFCS. As for the FDA definition of Organic, the product has to contain 75% of natural ingrediants and 25% whatever they want to put into that particular product,chemicals, horse **** So according to the Federal Death Admin you would have to consider fish organic because it contain 25% or less mercury.
post #18 of 21
I agree with other chefs who have commented, in that to be considered 'organic' there must be a control of what the fish has ingested, ie organic food. Being 'wild' doesn't guarantee that the fish has only eaten organic food, and this also applies to the farmed fish situation. Organic is about traceability. We are what we eat!
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post #19 of 21
Just so I am clear, most of you would rather eat a fish, or any animal for that matter that was raised in a pen and fed "organic" food than eat an animal that was allowed to roam and given feed that may have had some kind of chemicals at some point in its life?
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
post #20 of 21

Mercury Poisoning and Japan

The nature of the corporate press is that to manipulate reporting to their advantage or not reporting it at all, one of the most tragic and heart wrenching tragedies occurred in Japan, but even today it is hardly mentioned, The story is too long to deal with here, but can be searched on the Internet and in a Library, the researcher that work out the reaction that caused the catastrophe was murdered by authorities, Japan of the Shoguns and Samurais, has not changed its ethics that much! and obsequiousness towards the iniquitous authority is a must, otherwise chances of survival is slim, in a society that greed and consumerism reigns supreme.
The whole thing is known as Minamata Disease!
In fact that became to light, it was after People's Republic of China threatened Military action, and cautioned Japan, that oceans belong to all nations, and inflicting injuries on them was act of of war. unfortunately now days China has embraced the same policies that Japan espoused to, and there is hardly any environment left clean, even blue sky is rare commodity in China!
post #21 of 21
I don't think there is necessarily a preference towards eating organic over wild but if we are to farm our meat, I would rather eat an animal that has space to move and an environment to live in that is relative to the natural living conditions of that animal, as is part of the philosophy behind organics. Organics is not only about the diet of the animal - it is also about what has gone into the soil which the animal walks on, as well as the soil in which it's feed is grown in, so organics does nothing but good for the environment as a whole. I also think that, in some cases, if we were to hunt all our meat from the wild, many more species would be extinct than what currently are, so sustainably farming or becoming vegetarians are the only options.

As others have pointed out, the trace chemicals found in some animals are merely that - TRACE chemicals. Like anything in life, good or bad, it is about balance and too much of anything can kill or cause illness.
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Good food is food that tastes of what it is!
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Kiwisizzler's blog

Good food is food that tastes of what it is!
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