Fried Chicken Woes

Do not bring the temp of the oil down, no matter what you do. 350-375 is the zone for frying and I would not deviate from it.

That being said, if your chicken is not done after it appears to be golden brown, remove it from the oil and place it in the oven to continue cooking. I would not continue to deep fry after that excellent golden color is achieved.

You may also want to try breadcrumbs instead of a second coating of flour. I also like a buttermilk marinade then a flour dredge, however after I opt for egg wash and some panko crumbs instead of more buttermilk and flour. I have found the crumbs stand up to heat better and you get less burning than with flour.


I'm no chef (not yet anyways) but I like to think I know a thing or two about fried chicken.

edit: what kind of oil did you use?

no problem!

I usually find myself either finishing things in the oven or holding them there anways. I always think, if the outside is done, its done frying. Temp it and finish in the oven or hold if its where it needs to be.

How much chicken are you frying at a time in the basket? Also keep fat at 350-360 375 is a little to high. On TV the oil they are useing is not the same as salad oil that you use..Are you sure of oil temp? Try combining buttermilk, flour and spices make batter, dip chix in then fry.

Keep in mind most chicken that comes already made for restaurants is already blanched then breaded so it can never be raw in center(they usually steam first)

I don't use a deep fryer, I use a big cast iron skillet and heat the oil to 300. I dredge in flour and spice mix, then dip in beaten egg, then dredge in panko. I then put in the hot oil for 12 to 15 minutes on a side depending on the size of the piece. It comes out crispy and nicely browned but not oily.

And the moral is: Never believe what you see on the TV cooking shows. Period. Nothing is done in real time (except maybe Iron Chef), and the mistakes and intermediate steps are never shown. There are people backstage doing many takes of the recipes in order to have the good ones to show. What you see is just the best ones, not reality.

As for recipes on the Internet: a lot are just copycat. I was once looking for something an author I was working on mentioned, and found dozens of recipes, all identical. People had just copied it over and over and put their names on it. Didn't seem to me that anyone had ever tested it. And I could tell from reading it that it would never work. A lot of people think there's nothing to writing a recipe -- but there is a great deal of work that goes into writing a successful recipe.

Okay, rant over. As to the fried chicken question: Maybe part of the problem, along with other things people have mentioned, was the double coating. The proteins and starches in the flour and milk cook much faster than the dense chicken muscle meat. So as you found out, the coating will burn before the inside is fully cooked.

My preference is to soak in water with salt, lemon juice, and hot sauce, and to coat with seasoned flour just once (but heavily), rather than armor-plate the pieces. And I finish in the oven. I get a nice crisp crust. I also keep the flour much simpler: just salt, lots of pepper, and (sometimes) cayenne. By adding paprika, you skew the result, since that will change the color of the crust faster so that it looks done before the chicken really is. And the other herbs and spices can and will burn.

You may also try letting the chicken rest for a brief period after breading so that it's not refrigerator cold.

What kind of flour was used: AP, pastry (low in protein but high in starch) or high protein flour (lowest in starch)? Without being an expert in fried chicken, I'd go with AP flour that is moderate in both starch and protein content. It's the starches that carmelize and darken over time and perhaps you used a flour that's relatively high in starch.

Ever notice how plain white bread toasts much faster than whole wheat? That quicker browning is due to the higher starch content of white flour as opposed to whole wheat flour.

There was a previous discussion in the forums about this topic not too long ago. Here is the link

http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/food-...ight-here.html

There were plenty of hints and tips and tricks already written. Good luck! :smiles:

The main problem is that you're heating your oil too high, there's simply no way a large piece of chicken (such as a thigh, drumstick or breast piece) will cook on the inside before the exterior burns at that temperature. Also, the addition of spices like paprika on the outermost layer will help it darken/burn.

I agree with Blueicus. I fry chicken in a cast iron skillet. I don't brine, soak, or anything like that. Just rinse, pat dry, sprinkle with salt and pepper, roll or shake in either AP or SR flour (my mom and grandma always use SR but I don't always have it), then fry. My skillet will hold 2 legs, 2 thighs, and 2 wings at the time and I start with those. When I put the canola oil in the pan, I sprinkle a few drops of water in it, too. When the water stops "singing", I know the oil has come to temp and start to cook my chicken. I let it brown on one side, then flip. If the temp is too high, it browns too quickly so I may have to adjust my flame to compensate, too low and it doesn't bubble quickly, for lack of a better description, and the chicken will come out really greasy. I've learned that if I want to add spices, I need to season the chicken itself and not put it in the flour or I experience burning. After the dark meat is done and has been tested with the thermometer, I take it out and cook the breasts, livers, and gizzards, if they were included. The white meat cooks more quickly so that's why I wait until last. It's not crispy like say, KFC Extra Crispy but turns out a little more crispy than the original version. My family would rather have my chicken than anyone else's so I'm happy with how I cook it.

In the south they have special frying pans called chicken fryers. They are deeper than a normal frying pan with straight sides and a lid and should be able to hold an entire cut up chicken. They season their chicken, dredge it in flour and allow it to sit for a half hour or so. Then the oil is heated in the pan and the chicken added. Once the chicken has been browned on both sides, the pan is covered and the heat lowered to allow the chicken to cook through, about ten minutes. Then the cover is removed and the heat turned back up until the outside gets crisp again. Remove the chicken from the pan and pour off all but about 2 T. of oil. Stir 2 T. flour into the oil and cook about 3 min. Add 2 C. milk and any seasoning you like. Cook and stir until thickened. Result: southern fried chicken with white gravy.

One really big thing, already mentioned, is that you must let the chicken sit out to come near room temperature. Frying is very high heat at the surface, and it tends to seal juices wanting to escape. The result is that if the interior is cold, it can take a long time to cook through.

The other thing is, I have had this problem for some years, cooking by many methods. In my family we call this the "Lehrer Chicken Curse." The thing to watch out for is the difference between (a) pink and bloody, and (b) raw. Some supermarket chicken brands can, by certain methods, be cooked to 170F internal temperature and still run bloody juice. I have no idea why this is, but I have tested it many times with several different thermometers. My theory is that it has something to do with the various dyes, additives, and water pumped into the chickens, but I honestly don't know. You may want to try a different chicken brand and see if this makes any difference.

My current solution is simple enough: if I'm using cooking techniques akin to frying, I generally use medium-fancy chicken, separate every joint, and expect to do a post-frying bake. It shouldn't be necessary, but it is.

Just to check, though, for your temperatures, you might try an electric skillet. Provided you calibrate before putting in any chicken, it will do a wonderful job for classic pan-frying, and you don't have to mess around with thermometers.

Hmm sounds like maybe too much of an armour coating on the chook, and maybe not up to room temp. It was defrosted fully, also, if previously frozen?

With tandoori chicken its a similar pretreatment but minus the flour. I think (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but most of the yoghurt spice marinade is rubbed off before being put in the very hot tandoor oven. It does get those lovely black crusty bits from the marinade that is left on there, but that's half the appeal :) A pretty hot bbq gives a simlar result to a tandoor.

I like to poach the chook first and let it rest for a bit in the poaching liquid, drain, then pat dry, then marinade overnight. Long process, but it works for me. Rub off your marinade, dust in flour, deep fry. Doesn't get anywhere near crispy as the Colonel's, so, if that's what you're after, per others above. Panko crumbs give a good layer to stop the bird getting too greasy.

i usually regulate everything as it cooks. it should be bubbling a good amount when the stuff goes in to fry.


but not a super hot insane bubble, a vigorous yet gentle bubble of oil

for deep frying the best teacher is experience

i think your breading and soaking methods sounds fine.

make sure it is room temp before frying!!!just keep on trying

i would use peanut or corn oil



a GREAT oil to use would be coconut oil, but this is expensive and hard to come by unless u make your own

im in the south and can vouch for what greyeaglem wrote


good way of doing it

i dont think the coating is too thick



buttermilk to flour, buttermilk again and finally more flour

thats the same formula that chick fil a uses on their fried chicken sandwiches and nuggets

their coating has flour and msg and some other stuff in it

What you're trying to do is make a "double dipped" fried chicken in a deep fryer. Can you do it? Yes.

Long story short:

Your oil temperature was too high. Knock it down 30*F to 40*F, or so.

A little nuance to the answer:

The trick with fried chicken is getting the coating, the skin, and the meat to finish cooking at the same time. There are some variables which prevent giving the one right temperature for all purposes, the most important of which are the type of frying and the size of the pieces.

Pan frying works at a slightly higher temperature than a deep fryer, everything else being equal. In my experience 350F, a temperature often recommended for both pan and deep frying, is slightly too high for either, while 325F, a temperature you sometimes see suggested for deep frying chicken, is slightly too low.

When you tested your already too-dark chicken and found the meat underdone, you failed to account for the "carry over" cooking which comes with resting. You're going to have to learn to rest and allow for carry over. Chicken is best after a rather extensive rest. And, in the case of fried chicken, is better warm than "piping hot." That the flesh was almost done when you tested was demonstrated by the fact that it was so overcooked with a few minutes more cooking.

Some ingredients and spices, if used in the flour dredge, will result in a very dark coating. Cinnamon and paprika are among them. So are bread crumbs and dried, green herbs.

A few "FWIW" thoughts:

A "chicken fryer" is a very common pan in the north as well as the south. The gourmet name is "saute pan." They're identical. "Alla time same same," as a young lady once told me. They're especially useful 12" and up. A 14" pan is large enough to fry a whole chicken's worth or pieces at one time.

There are a lot of good suggestions on this thread for cooking fried chicken in some other way than the one you've chosen. I've tried dozens of great ways, including all of the ones on this thread. That doesn't mean your way isn't just as good. Also, recipes don't come with shackles. If you find one way you like, you're not restricted to it for the rest of your life. If you want to perfect this one, then try something else; or if you simply want to move on -- you have my blessing, that's for sure.

Brining is a way of getting the meat to hold extra moisture. It is especially useful when frying at lower temperatures in that it gives you some leeway in that it allows you to cook the flesh more well done without drying it too much. Even then, poultry breast is has a very narrow range of done/juicy. Understand that I'm not suggesting that the way to fix your problem is through brining, but it may be of interest to you since it's such a natural variation you can do by simply oversalting the first buttermilk marinade. Of course you'll have to control salt by making a few changes. ^ou can't use the brined buttermilk between dredges. You'll have to use fresh buttermilk (or some other liquid) without any salt; and you'll want to reduce the salt in every other part of the recipe as well.

If you want to brown the coating to the desired color quickly at a relatively high oil temperature, then finish the chicken gently in a moderate oven -- it's a reliable technique, especially useful in quantities that require cooking in batches. Your crust won't be quite as crisp though. It's how I learned to cook fried chicken from Ora, the lady who used to "do" for my family.

I like fried chicken best with greens, corn bread, melon and sweet potato pie. That particular combination might be a Jewish thing. Probably originally Latvian or something.

Chalk's description of what the oil should look like during the cook was especially helpful, I thought.

Happy chicken,
BDL

You mentioned you heated your oil to 370. Are you keeping that temperature constant or is that just your initial temperature? In any home deep frying application, your oil temperature will drop a good bit when you first put the food in it. Starting at 370 is good because when you add your chicken, the oil will drop in temperature. Try starting at 370 and then maintain at 340 to 350 once you add the food. 370 the whole way through is just too hot, and that could be the cause of your problems.

Also, are you using enough oil? The less oil you use, the more the temperature drops. Work in batches if you have to, you can keep the first pieces warm in a slow oven without any problem while you're finishing the rest. I've never had a problem with fried chicken and I use the double dip that you are describing, so if it's not this, I'm not sure what it could be.

Lee

>> am I grasping at straws?

yup, but it's a small straw <g>

following your 'brine' logic - which methinks is spot on - you're faced with frying a

a "non-water logged" piece
a "water logged" piece

suppositioning that water-logged = faster cooking.

problem: water is a huge_HUGE_ heat sink. (ref: specific heat)
actually, pretty much all things devoid of water will heat up / come to a boil / fry / faster than things with a lot of moisture/water.

it's one of those neat, logical, but <sigh> wrong things....

now the good news is, brine away.
the difference in cooking time will only affect mass manufacturing where the length of the deep fryer conveyor needs to be 44.2 feet vs 43.8 feet....

Straws. Chicken is unpleasantly overcooked at temperatures well below the boiling point of water; i.e., when it becomes steam. In fact, brined chicken takes longer to cook because it's more massive.

Dillbert is right that the time differential is not large, but he exaggerated its insignificance as a humorous, literary device. I laughed. I laughed out loud. :lol:

Properly done, brining will give you a juicier piece of chicken, a bit more tolerant to overcooking than an unbrined piece. However, you have to get your liquid, salt, acid and sugar ratios right or you run the risks of "watery," over-salted, and/or"mushy" (too much acid, white meat only) chicken.

A basic, medium brine ("medium," according to the USDA) is 1/2 cup of (uniodized) table sat, and 1 cup of sugar completely dissolved in 1 gallon of water, plus 1 cup of vinegar. This brine should be just salty enough to float an egg.

Basic is as basic does. You might want to start out by completely dissolving 1/4 cup (4 tbs) of uniodized table salt into 2 qts of commercially prepared limeade and/or lemonade to not only get a taste of what a slightly sweet "medium" brine is like but an excellent poultry brine as well. That is, the sweet/sour balance isn't unpalatable, but brines taste very salty. One of the most common problems among new briners is their desire to make the brine taste good on its own -- in the same way a marinade does. No. A brine for this purpose should taste unpleasantly salty.

A chicken brine I use frequently is to simply add salt to buttermilk at the ratio of 2 tbs per quart. The buttermilk may be seasoned as you like. Mine includes paprika, chile de arbol, chopped onion, a squeeze or two of lime juice and a couple of tbs of sugar. If you do go with a buttermilk brine for double dipped chicken -- you can't use the brine for the dip. Use fresh, unsalted buttermilk seasoned in any other way like.

If you do plan to investigate brining, make sure you buy untreated chicken to begin with. Much of the chicken you see in the super, especially from the southern mega-farms was "pumped" before packaging and will not absorb any more liquid. "Free range" (which isn't very free, and "organic" (usually not very organic) are better choices. Kosher chicken isn't pumped, but otherwise behaves as though it were brined. You may find it worthwhile to seek out freshly slaughtered local chickens. It makes as big a difference as seeking out fres fish.

Also, if you brine the chicken, drastically reduce or completely omit the salt in any successive steps.

Whether brined, marinated or au naturel: As always with deep frying battered or breaded foods, the trick is finding an oil temperature which will finish cooking the coating and the interior at the same time. In the case of the chicken which began this thread the oil was quite obviously too hot. I still recommend 325F for the particular purpose.

BDL

I yearn for the chickens raised 2 or 3 decades ago, the ones that yielded about a cup of grease when properly baked in the oven. Now THOSE were truly juicy chickens compared to the ***p that's brined nowadays.

Yours, mine and KFC fried chicken. The difference between theirs and ours is that theirs uses a pressure fryer> that is like cooking any food in pressure cooker it can cook at higher temp ansd chances of burning are slim. Their xtra crisp is simply chicken soaked in icewater thnm breaded in their secret manner. I agree with BDL fry at a lower temp and fry smaller amounts. All the herbs and spices everyone adds have other things in them to prevent caking, these burn and get darker, anything that has sugar will also brown quicker(Bread Crumbs and some Batters.) chick should also be at room temp, not ice cold or frozen(unless pre cooked).
Many years ago there was a machine called a broaster which was for frying chicken under pressure. I dont know if still in business.