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Oven Spring

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
:bounce: :bounce:

Okay folks. By reducing the amount of water used in my standard bread recipe, the dough is stiffer and dryer. It's not slack. Yet, a higher oven spring is achieved. The crown (bread profile) is much higher and slashing produces a really attractive gash. The total amount of water has been reduced from 13 oz to 12 1/2 oz. It really makes a difference in oven spring. The finished loaf tastes equally moist, too.

New proportions.

FLOUR 4 1/2 c all-purpose flour
WATER 12 1/2 oz (reduced from 13 oz)
YEAST 1 tsp
SALT 2 tsp
MALT POWDER 1 1/3 tsp


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #2 of 20
Ok I read this 10 times to understand it :-)

Too many unknown expressions but I will try this proportion later today although I do not agree with the reduction of water...and I rarely bake with yeast but I will keep the exact proportions that you give, kokopuffs.
I think that bread needs a lot of moisture but maybe this is a personal taste

I always though that what makes the difference in bread is the hour you spend kneadding it...

What do you think on that?
"Muabet de Turko,kama de Grego i komer de Djidio", old sefardic proverb ( Three things worth in life: the gossip of the Turk , the bed of the Greek and the food of the Jew)
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"Muabet de Turko,kama de Grego i komer de Djidio", old sefardic proverb ( Three things worth in life: the gossip of the Turk , the bed of the Greek and the food of the Jew)
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post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Less water equals a tighter, less slack dough. One that stands up better. There are limits, however.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #4 of 20
Ok I made it.

You have a point about the dough, it stands better indeed but it's a bid dry bread, for my taste at least. What if you used starter instead of yeast?

:)
"Muabet de Turko,kama de Grego i komer de Djidio", old sefardic proverb ( Three things worth in life: the gossip of the Turk , the bed of the Greek and the food of the Jew)
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"Muabet de Turko,kama de Grego i komer de Djidio", old sefardic proverb ( Three things worth in life: the gossip of the Turk , the bed of the Greek and the food of the Jew)
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post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 

Preferment vs Starter

I use a preferment which is a starter made using SAF Red Instant yeast as opposed to a starter which relies on yeasts naturally occurring in the atmosphere.

Just experiment to see what you can achieve.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #6 of 20
I bought the Bread Baker's Apprentise the other day and I am tickled that I can actually understand this thread.
I have a question though. I was at the grocery store the other day and I checked all the various brands of flour. They all contain malted barley flour. That being so, is the addition of malt powder still necessary?

Jock :)
post #7 of 20
It's not necessary, but it gives the dough an extra kick in the pants. You can also buy malt powder (or syrup) on its own.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
I purchase flour in 50 pound sacks directly from the mill. The flour has no additives - hence, the addition of diastatic malt. The latter is yeast food that gives a faster rise and darker crust. Many bakers, says a lab technician involved in the milling industry, use it to control the rise.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #9 of 20
How long did you knead? and how? (by hand of machine?)

How long did you let the dough rise? How many times?

What specific type of yeast did you use? "active dry" or "instant"?
What brand?

What was the oven temperatue?

Did you steam the oven? If yes, when?

How long did you bake it?
post #10 of 20
I agree with momoreg about the barley malt. If you are looking to buy flour with outr it already added, try King Arthur. They do not add it to their flours. Another way to give bread "an extra kick in the pants" is buy adding ascorbic acid. This is readily available as Vitamin C. You can either crush tablets or but in powdered form at most health food or vitamin stores. A little goes a long way. I add about 1/16 TSP to kokopuffs formula.
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
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post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Cchiu:

Kneading time 5 - 10 minutes in the Kitchen Aid mixer

SAF RED INSTANT YEAST is used

Place in preheated oven at 475 for 10 minutes lowered to 450 for 50 minutes: baking time is 1 hour therefore

No steam is used; oven hot enough

The dough rises once to the 2.5 - 3 quart mark according to the dough rising bucket. It's then poured skin side down onto the countertop. There I turn each of the 4 sides into the center; turn the dough skin side up; chafe into a round or oblong and allow to rest 5 minutes. Then I reshape as necessary and place into a banneton to rise anywhere from 45 - 60 minutes.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
OH OH!!! :eek: :eek:

It's wintertime here in Denver and the air is really dry. I'm now using up to 13.5 - 14 oz of water in the recipe listed above.

Also, I just discovered that using more slashes in the dough allows for greater expansion, giving a larger loaf.

Grok. Zen and the art of slashing!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #13 of 20
what are you all cutting with? Just curious. I personally find this to be a very important part of bread baking.

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is Too Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is Too Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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post #14 of 20
From the looks of some of my loaves, a meat mallet!
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
post #15 of 20
C'mon now. razor blade, dbl edge-single? knife serrated-straight?
commercial bread blade? bakery company give-away? exacto?

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is Too Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is Too Short!!
Paninicakes.com

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post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 

Top Secret: If I tell you I bake you.

Panini:

I slash using a double edge razor blade. The slasher handle was procured for just a few dollars from the SAN FRANCISCO BAKING INSTITUTE. I've seen other bakers us xacto knives and even serrated bread knives as slashers.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #17 of 20
I have used all of the above. I currently use lame, if badly :)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
post #18 of 20
Interesting info. Have to look at it when more time is available...

As for my question on steam, I wasn't asking in terms of raising the temperature. For artisan breads (which may have nothing to do with what you're trying to acheive), steam is used in the beginning stages of baking primarily to keep the outside from cooking too fast hardening off, getting too hot to keep the yeast alive. For the first 20 minutes of baking, the yeast becomes extremely active because of the heat until it gets hot enough to kill it. Only then does it stop expanding. Spraying steam will keep the outside of the dough elastic so that the dough can expand.

Just as you enjoy slashing the top for expansion, you may try your recipe with some steam injections to see if there is a difference.

Slashing gives the loaf a place to grow during its last burst of expansion in the oven.

Artisan breads have been around a long time and are made this way. For these breads, you do NOT want steam in the last half of baking so that the crust can form to it's truest potential.
post #19 of 20

vit c

I make a simple bread dough for everything from pizza to bread and I add............
lemon juice to the starter!
little yeast, little sugar, little flour, little liquid, little acid = Happy bread.

:lips:
bake first, ask questions later.
Oooh food, my favorite!


Professor Pastry Artswww.collin.edu
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bake first, ask questions later.
Oooh food, my favorite!


Professor Pastry Artswww.collin.edu
Reply
post #20 of 20
Oh sure m, demystify the ascobic acid thing and take all the fun out of it :)
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.
www.kyleskitchen.net
Reply
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