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auto-clor vs. ecolab - Page 2

post #31 of 45

P.S. I resent the allegation that 'all chemical guys screw the customer' by turning up the dispensers. I pride myself in making sure that the correct dilutions are set up for every dispenser. Yes there are dirt-bags out there but not all of us screw you!

Long term customer retention is better than short term profits. (I have only lost 1 customer in past 12 months and thats a failing restaurant that thinks the $30 a month savings is going to save his business.)

MY NAME is my reputation, not the company I work for.

post #32 of 45

standard in the business is it cost you 50 cents to run each rack, that price includes labor , chemical, heat, utilities, etc

post #33 of 45

you have to remember ecolab lease the machines, but parts and labor are free. A conveyor wash pump motor replaced for free by ecolab, can cost up to $1,000 to replace if you own your own machine. leases varies from $80. a month for single door machine, to $200.00  m.onth for conveyors

post #34 of 45

I agree with the Dish Doctor. Enough Said!




The Soap Man

post #35 of 45
Originally Posted by left4bread View Post

Our lease is up on our A-clr one rack dish-washer. We've been renting it for almost 10 years. We've been using eco product in our other dish-washer and our two glass-washers, though, and were strongly considering buying a Jackson machine to replace the A-clr machine. I always thought that it just went without saying; if you can't afford to buy a machine, then you rent one.

But now after talking with eco reps and A-clr reps (who just contradict each other) I'm not sure which way to go...

Any thoughts?
post #36 of 45

i worked for Ecolab,  jackson machines are junk, spend the xtra money and buy Hobart or CMA.

post #37 of 45

Did you made a decision, I am in the same position right now and would like advise...any experience with auto chlor??

post #38 of 45

I, too am an ex Executive Chef with 32 years experience.  I am now an A.E. for Auto-Chlor in DC.  I saw the light after about 20 years as far as getting bad service and high prices from the Eco Lab people that I dealt with. Once I used AC that was all I ever used again and that is why I went to work for them.   I agree that there are good and bad everywhere from all companies.  My best friends were Sysco salesman and while they liked the income gained from selling chemicals they despised having to deal with repercussions from unhappy customers when performance issues cropped up. 

Eco Lab is an 18 million dollar a year traded company that has many shareholders that must see a profit.  Their machines are merely dispensers for their liquid gold, the chems.  They do a great job of taking care of their larger customers but the little guys don't see too much of that.  All companies must make a profit, it's just "how much" is the difference. 

I make a killing now by converting people over to AC from Eco Lab because I know how some of them operate and if I get a chance to see their invoices it's an easy sell.  I am a chef/owner's dream because I am concerned about the big picture, Serv Safe Certified, and am more like a consultant for my clients.  I treat them fairly and follow up with all of them and continue to go to all of my accounts, as they are my partners, for as long as they are AC customers. 

post #39 of 45

I was a chef for over 30 years and now an AE for Auto-Chlor in northern VA/DC.  I make a killing converting Eco Lab clients over to us because I know how they operate.  Their machines are merely dispensers for their "liquid gold".  They use other companies  machines and many times contract out the labor.  Their business is chemicals.  AC is the only company who makes their own patented low-temp machines, their own chems, and their own techs to service them.  This is an easy sell for me when I go up against EL.

post #40 of 45

I hate low temps for a number of reasons.


1) one more chemical to buy, which also has a finite shelf life.  Plus the sanitzer is more corrosive than regular detergent or rinse aid, so the lines have to be changed more frequently as well as the dispensor units


2) Plates come out p___ warm, not hot.  This means they take much longer to dry, which  translates  in kitchen language to stacks of cold, wet plates and puddles of water.


3) Glassware doesn't come out all so clean.  Grease, fingerprints, and especially lipstick needs hot water to  get removed, and the low temp can't deliver on this.  Who cares if the wash cyle is 140 or 180 seconds instead of the standard 120?  It still won't come out clean if the water ain't hot enough.


Every dishwasher I've trained starts off with two questions:  "You watched the first Harry Potter movie, right?  Remember the scene where the uncle sticks his fat face in the camera and says "there's no such thing as magic?  And :  As a kid, I trust you've jumped through a garden sprinkler on a hot day?  It might have got you wet, but it probably didn't get you clean.  This dishwasher is no different, it just flings water around in the hopes of getting stuff clean.  If it isn't more or less clean before it goes in, it sure as (deleted) won't be clean when you take it out. "


This is always followed by instructions on how to scrape plates clean, how to use cardboard box tops to wipe out grease and crud out of pans and pots before washing, how you can't wash dishes if your tank water is filthy, how to look at both wash and rinse arms for blockages, how to monitor soap and rise aid, and how to rattle the racks in the machine before taking them out so you don't trail water all over the place.


It ain't the machine or the soap that gets stuff clean, it's the operator.  Only people who understand this concept will have clean dishes with a minimum amount of trouble and service calls.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #41 of 45
What do you guys know about a chemical called Freedom from Mt Hood? We use a floor cleaner/degreaser when we mop, and then we put the Freedom down after we squeegee and rinse. It sits overnight

It's like $30/gallon though... Actually probably more
post #42 of 45

As someone who has sold machines of all sorts for 42 years and being in the chemical supplier field to restaurants the same amount of time I have quite a bit of insite into your questions.  Always, if possible use a high temperature machine and run it low tem. (using sanitizer instead of 180 degree water to sanitize.  Low temp single door macines use up to 3 gallons of water each rack.  That means you have to heat the water thru your heater for 3 gallons, you pay for 3 gallons of water, you pay for 3 gallons of sewage, you have to use alot of water to rinse the dishes pretty much perfectly on the low temp machines.  Remember the more water in the was tank the more chemicals you will use for soap (rinse and sanitizer also if you are using a low temperature washer.  You use 1 1/2 minutes of electricity for each single door low temperature machine where with a high temp machine run low temp you use about a gallon or a bit more.  Are you starting to see the savings yet?  Jackson machines, never did I think they were good, either for costs or results or for how dependable they were.  I prefer ADA 180 machines run low temp, since they use very little water.  My favorite though is a Hobart 14 or 15.  They use 1.2 gallons of water each wash, therefore you heat only that much and since they have a bilt in heater with a tank of only 11 gallons think how much the savings on heat heating only 11 gallons vs. the 100 gallon hot water tank you have now or even larger that you have set high just to get hot water to the dishwasher.  Strange think is you don't get hot water to the dishwasher unless you are washing back to back to back racks (because water cools in pipes if they set).  Hobart machines last 30 years or so, you don't worry about changing them out often.  Also, owning (leases are very cheap these days)  means you can choose the supplier that offers the best chemical costs.  Buying thru a food company is bad as they mark their products up again after the supplier and usually don't buy the best chemicals.  They use chemicals they can sell cheap per case, but these are usually not the chemicals that last longer dollar per dollar.  Some food companies offer their low temperature washers at nc but I promise then their "using costs" will be high per rack.  Remember, they have the ability to set how much goes in each rack, you don't know what should go in, you can only guess to the real settings.  So much as to the costs and results and quality of dishwashers.  Your chemical ratio for money spent on chemicals  vs. total food and beverage sales should range as low as 5 tenths of 1% to perhaps 6 tenths or a bit more for about 8 products used in your restaurant.  These ratios are based on not waisting or pouring products and using common sense and having dispensors that portion control to regulate your costs.  Finally, I don't know you and you dont' know me but I am telling you true facts.  I work in the chemical sales area and most people want to know costs of a cs. or a bucket not knowing the concentration or how honest your settings are being made.  If you lease a DW you are tied into who ever leased it to you for a year, if you "lease to own" where you are making payments to buy the DW thru a leasing company the cost is only a bit higher and after 5 years you own and stop paying, if you have a service repair cost so what, it will be less than leasing a DW for a year.  Hope this has been helpful, did you stay with me to the end?



post #43 of 45

I´m currently using Ecolab, I started this service a few months ago, and I already want to get rid of them. they´re killing me with the chemical prices, cuz it´s required to get the chemicals from them. I´m looking for other options. A friend of mine is with Pure Force, she says it´s pretty affordable, but I´ve been trying to get a hold of them and nobody gets back to me... pretty bad costumer service. So, I´m looking for other alternatives.

post #44 of 45

Pure force is a division of Ecolab.

post #45 of 45
Thread Starter 

Purchase a machine and buy your chemicals at Costco or Cash&Carry, if you're looking to eliminate the salesmen.

The salesmen come into play when your machine breaks during the middle of service on a Friday.

Even if you own the machine, if you are using their chemicals, they should come in and fix your machine on call.

If you don't have that service, then buy your chemicals at cash&carry or a big-box.

If you're handy with simple motors and simple plumbing, then do it yourself.

If your detergent supplier is treating you like dirt, then switch. Don't let them hold you in a contract.

Leave. Are they going to take you to court? Nope.

Unless you're behind in bills...

Oh, also, never sign a contract. Flat out refuse. They'll work with you.

Never sign a contract (that doesn't allow yourself an out).


So many post count:1 in this thread.



P.S. I've had good customer relations with both EL and A-Clor. It kinda depends on your region and their region mngr.

I think it's sad that they send ppl here to defend them with walls of text that no one reads. If you're going to do that, you should be clever about it.

You're not clever, guys. No one gets that defensive in retrospect. I've worked with former soap chemical salesmen. You're ridiculous.

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