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so, would i be correct (more or less) in saying:

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
that the ideal temperature for gilling, be it in a grill pan or over charcoal or gas, is one that cooks the interior of the meat to the desired doneness while giving a nice sear/char on the outside (but not overdoing the sear)?

because in my mind, if the temp is much too high, you'll burn the outside of the meat before the inside gets to the desired temp, while conversely, if the temp is too low, you might slowly reach the desired internal temp but fail to effectively sear the outside of the meat. that leaves you with the aforementioned scenario, which seems to satisfy both requirements.

Any thoughts? am i getting too technical? over-thinking things?

hey, I'm a scientist. I look at things scientifically... methodically. :chef:
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post #2 of 21
All items are different. The hotter the better for steaks, you actually want a char on the outside. In a quality establishment items are started on the grill and finished in the oven, therefor it is my belief that the grill is good for imparting taste and char grill markings and that's all. One should also have a hot side of grill and a lower side. Chicken breast can be put on lower side.:chef:


As far as gas or electric, In 50 years I never worked in a commercial kitchen with electric grills.
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post #3 of 21
I'd be quite happy taking a nice THICK steak, and throwing it on a 1000+ degree grill, getting a NICE black char on the outside and barely touching the inside in a few seconds.

unfortunately, for chicken wings, that doesn't work out so well.

Nor anything like ribs....or low and slow.
post #4 of 21
Von, also keep in mind that you'll get two groups of answers to that question, because what you do in a commercial kitchen is hardly ever the same as how you'd cook at home. As already mentioned, for instance, it would be a rare case, indeed, for a cook in a fine restaurant to completely cook a steak on the grill. On the other hand, doing such is quite common at home.

A lot also depends on what you are cooking. Steaks and lamb chops, for instance, are cooked completely at high heat because by the time the proper sear forms you don't have to cook them but a few minutes more. Chicken, on the other hand, needs to be seared quickly, then, as Ed points out, cooked more slowly until done.

So, yes, there is a science to all this. But it's mostly experience and feel. If you need to be scienfically precise then you use a remote-probe thermometer, and that'll tell you when the meat is done.
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post #5 of 21
For my steak, feel free to run your grill as hot as you can get it. 1000 degrees? No problem! Just be sure set my steak out for 30-40 minutes to come a bit closer to room temp, then cook it rare if it's a sirloin, medium-rare for any other beef steak cut.:chef:
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
lots of good feedback here.. thanks! :smoking: (I don't smoke, but I wanted the shades!)
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post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
sorry for the bump, but this got me thinking.....

it's generally accepted that most, if not all, professional chefs, prefer the sear and oven finish method for steaks. so why not just do this for ALL cuts of various meats...chicken, kabobs, etc. when (and why) WOULD you finish a steak on the grill, except for the backyard? seems to me that the ideal scenario for all cuts and types of meat is the sear and oven finish method. no? :confused:

for what it's worth, i love the sear and oven finish method for steaks. i learned that from alton brown in an episode of good eats. otherwise, i would not have really known to do that....
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post #8 of 21
We do all finish in oven.,If you notice no good place serves items that are to charred on outside, or bitter and burned except in peoples backyards.:chef:
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post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Even a chicken breast, Ed?
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post #10 of 21
Keep in mind that a home broiler or grill is about 30 to 40% less hot then our big hi btu input broilers are. If I put the breast on and cooked it fully on the grill it would be to dry for service. By the time the inside was cooked the outside would be charred and bitter. This is more true when we cook Pallards which are thinly pounded breast. Another example is prepping of blackened fish or chicken. To do it correctly it should be in a heavy cast iron skillet. Mine is on the burnrer all day. If you do this in your home kitchen your smoke alarms would go off and evacuation woud be a must. A home setting and restaurant is much different. The pan is so hot that the product is actually riding on a layer of steam in part of the process. This can't be done in a home kitchen with inadaqate exhaust systems:chef:
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post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
So Ed, I don't dispute what you saw AT ALL. you're clearly an experienced chef. But do me a quick favor, and watch these short segments and tell me why these people elect to do things entirely on a grill, or on the stove top in a grill/fry pan. I mean, is there a reason or difference? I'm a bit confused. for what it's worth, I love the pan sear method. My cast iron collection is growing all the time! Again, don't mistake this for an argument... I'm simply trying to understand the difference, or why one guy does one thing one way, and another guy something different.
Thanks. :chef:

YouTube - Gordon Ramsey - Pan Glazed Fillet of Beef.

YouTube - A delicious 6oz fillet steak cooked by haha's Simon Blunt

YouTube - Chef Shannon cooking steak at The Marina Restaurant

YouTube - Grilled Swordfish


Edit: my poit, if you'll notice, is that none finished anything in the oven. That's what I'm confused on... when SHOULD you, and when don't you have to.
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post #12 of 21
First off, after watching the first video, I noticed he was cooking on a "home" style stove top. As Ed pointed out, home appliances average about 1/3-1/2 less btu's than professional models so it's impossible to achieve the high heat levels of restaurant burners.

Secondly, while I agree that the grill-oven method is used quite a bit, I do think that its importance is being overstated slightly. In the restaurant business I rarely used this method and opted to cook most of my meats completely on the grill or stove top. This was especially true of any steak cooked medium or less. I most often used the sear-oven method for thick cut pork chops, chicken or very thick steaks cooked to medium or higher. I know many chefs that prefer to oven their meats and many chefs that don't. Don't get too hung up on this. Spend your time developing your technique and decide which style is right for you. Each way produces wonderfully cooked meat, in the right hands.
post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 
Good feedback, Pete. Thanks. :smoking:
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post #14 of 21
As stated earlier, a lot depends on the heat of the unit you are using. We only finish well or med. well steaks in the oven as we have a salamander broiler which isn't as hot as some open broilers I have used. It also runs on propane, so that may have something to do with it. This broiler is only a couple of years old, and it also has stainless grates, which I hate as I can't get good grill marks from it like I could the old one that had cast iron grates. If I don't have other stuff in it, I will put the grate on the highest postition to heat up before I put a steak or grilled salmon etc. on it.
post #15 of 21
Looking at both videos I notice both being prepared in commercial type kitchens with adequate exhaust systems. The home kitchen does not have this. If you cooked like this home , you would have to paint your kitchen every 3 weeks. I am not stating the grill to oven technique as a must, I am just saying that most places have been in do it like this. I am not saying it better or worse everyone to their own devices. I finish a whole steak like this in a pan if it is ordered Black & Blue, or put a sizzler on an opened burner and make it black and blue that way.:chef:
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post #16 of 21
I agree with you Ed. There are a number of different ways to achieve the same results, and I don't dislike or discount, at all, the choice to finish meats in the oven. I just felt that everyone, in this thread, jumped on that bandwagon and wanted to offer the input of someone who prefers to completely cook most of their meats on the grill or stove top. In no way would I ever make a judgement call as to which is better. Both techniques work, if done properly.

As for the kitchens on the videos, yes they had exhaust fans, but in the one with Gordon Ramsey the burner itself looked to be a standard consumer burner.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
sorry to bump the thread, but I was watching HK and saw this.

look carefully at 1:57. There is a reversible g/g with a piece of salmon on it. then at 1:58, you can see a close-up. First off, what the heck is it sitting on? and 2, again, why would they cook salmon (and steak in other scenes) on cast iron when they have a real gas (or is it charcoal?) grill in the kitchen?

ps- at literlaly 2 seconds in, you can see two reverbile g/g on that flat surface with a bunch of pans.

YouTube - ****'s Kitchen: Season 5: Episode 7 - Part 4/5
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post #18 of 21
As a scientist you know that you cannot cook in an enclosed area with charcoal(indoors) in most states it is illegal. You get 2 distinct flavors when cooking on charcoal or gas grill and cooking in a pan or flat grill. You may want a font to make a sauce, cant do this on char-grill. I love a rib-steak cooked in a cast iron pan not on a char grill. Everyone is different. Don't go by what you see on HK, as 98% of them do not have a clue. I don't know how Ramsay puts up with them, good thing he is calm:lol:
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post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
But Ed, what is that flat surface all the pans are on? Is it just a large heating surface that can accomodate anything they put on it without the need to be in an ordered fashion?

Also, I know charcoal can be dangerous if used indoors.... didn't know it was outright illegal though... but if you have a commercial exhaust system, no real problem, IMO. There's a hotdog joint in western n.y. called Ted's. They did all their cooking on charcoal if I'm not mistaking.
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post #20 of 21
Many commercial stoves are made without burners, the burners are covered with rings, and the top of the stove is about an inch thick. These are called flat-tops or hot tops or closed burner and years ago most of the hotels had these. They are good in the fact that no direct flame hits the bottom of pots the heat is dispersed evenly to all parts of the pan or pots.
They are not good on all stations where you need the open flame.. One thing I can tell you is that when hot tops are used kitchen is 15 to 20% hotter to work in because that steel holds that heat.:bounce:
PS Can tell you that in NY and Florida regardless of what exhaust system , it is NOT legaL.
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post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
great info on the stove top. never seen that before. thanks.

here's ted's homepage. I know the location in the Walden Galleria recently closed so maybe it was because of the charcoal issue.

Hot Dogs - Ted's Restaurant World Famous Charcoal Broiled Hot Dogs
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