Msg?

Most people do not know what MSG is or where it comes from an how it is made. The MSG of today and the original Agimoto powder are quite different. I did a thesis on MSG when I graduated college and it is interesting. It's properties affect everyone differently.
It won't kill you, and there are much worse things in our food supply.:chef:

A wild guess, but is Agimoto powder you just mentioned above is the origin of MSG? It sounds Japanese and I seem to recall Japanese as the one which had the word for the taste of this...uh...controversial substance.

Also, may you give some insight on your research? That seems very interesting and it's exactly the opposite of what's been popular now.

I dont have a problem with MSG. The Chinese have been using it it for centuries. It may not be good for you, but neither is salt. I saw it recently on sale as Chinese taste powder. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but its a far eastern taste enhancer. And has been since the year dot

Indeed so. Here in Indonesia it's almost as common as salt and pepper.

I find it rather cheating, though. Almost everything with MSG will taste good / pleasant to the tastebuds, regardless of actual taste or techniques. I've been to so many place where the food is all...depending on MSG, much to my annoyance. And it's PACKED.

And I've heard people saying some food "not delicious" or "not flavorful enough" just because it didn't have much MSG. D:

I'd search Google beore I did anything about MSG!

The FDA cites it as GRAS, Generally Recognized As Safe.

Some one pass the Accent! :D

I am allergic to msg so I have to be extremely careful when I buy groceries and also when we eat out. In my home cooking I sub Mrs Dash for Accent and I make sure when we go out to eat if the establisment has anything containing msg and I stay away from those items if I have to.

Experiments were done with MSG in the 60s. The use of MSG was attributed to an ailment called chinese syndrome. Which in some people was diagnosed as a pending stroke or heart attack, It started affecting the left arm and gave it pain and a feeling of numbness. Feeding groups of people MSG and other groups with a placebo did not produce any firm results. Some people showed a reaction some did not as did some on the placebo. Agimotto started out being made from fermented seeweed,which some may have been alergic to. Today it is in most cases made from fermented beets. In one respect it could be refered to as a natural food, because it is naturaly in the foods. In my own experiments with it , I did find that foods with added MSG went bad faster. And it tended to make people extremely thirstyThe Chines restaurants stopped cooking with it because of public opinion, but most of all because they saved money as it was not cheap. When it came here in the 50s as agimotto it was about $5.00 a pound..:chef:

Hi treehugger,
Hopefully I can help you to understand MSG and why its in so many things and what the real replacers that are used in foods today are...

1. Hydrolyzed vegetable protien is NOT MSG!! HVP is NOT used to replace MSG it is something all together different and has different uses in food(ie to replace meats and meat flavors in vegetarian/vegan foods, as a cost reducer, and as a flavor enhancer for cheeses and mushrooms.) What you are confusing HVP with is AYE or "autolyzed yeast extract". They are not the same, AYE is used as an MSG replacer in many food products, particularly snack seasonings. It is based on the chemical stripping of the Yeast to autolyze it to act as an MSG flavored product. Several different types of yeasts are used, Brewers, Torula and Sacchramoyses are the 3 most commonly used types of yeast used to replace MSG, but they are not intended to "fool" people into thinking that they are MSG. AYE is a whole different subject that is currently being debated within the FDA as whether is can be labeled as natural or not.

2. MSG has many benefits and is actually healthier for you than salt. It is used in MUCH lower doses than salt, has lower sodium, and is a better flavor enhancer than salt, thats why the Chinese and Japanese have been using it for centuries in Soy Sauce and on its own instead of salt.

3. It is ILLEGAL and against FDA and USDA regulations to falsely label ANY food items for exactly what they are. If MSG is in a food product IT MUST be labeled as such or the manufacturer would face ENORMOUS fines and possible shut down as well as a system wide recall of all foods that were falsely labeled.

4. Salt is insanely bad for you unless it is used in low levels and if you read labels than you know that it isnt. MSG is actually healthier for you from a sodium stand point and its a natural product but because ppl didnt know about it in the 70's and 80's it got a bad rap and ppl began to develop and "allergy" to it. All MSG contains is sodium and glutamic acid in its most basic form.

If you would like I could breakdown MSG for you so you can understand what it is in comparison to salt or you could just look it up.

Are you allergic to salt or glutamic acid?

never used it, never will.

what if I told u I could reduce your sodium intake by 40%, do it naturally and at no added cost would u do it?

i would ask how...

By replacing salt with MSG. Lower usage levels and naturally lower sodium levels without the use of potassium chloride or magnesium which is what is used in reduced sodium foods.

i was trying to research this topic online last night, but seems all the results just go in circles... i would like to know how many top chefs, or which high-end restaurants use msg.

You may not find too many in the US, mostly in China, Japan and parts of the UK. We have caused such a negative image of it in the US that ppl automatically run in the other direction when they hear it even mentioned in food. The only places you will find it used regularly in the US is in snack manufacturing and commercial sauce making.

The results go in circles because there is a lot of miss-information. AFAIK no one is clinically "allergic" to MSG. At least according to the physicians I have asked about this. Some may have a reaction to MSG such as getting flush etc. However a reaction and an "allergy" are not the same thing. I'm not sure an allergy test for MSG even exists. Your body produces MSG so if you were "allergic" to MSG you would be in deep kim chee.
A food allergy is an abnormal response to food from the immune system. The immune system is not responsible for the symptoms of a food intolerance, allthough the symptoms may resemble those of a food allergy. Less than 1% of the population has a food allergy.
There are those on medications and who have other clinical allergies that do need to be careful about consuming foods that can result in a reaction for them.
A food reaction, like gas can give you enough discomfort and pain to land you in the ER, however it's not going to have the same potential health consequences as an allergic reaction.


"It is ILLEGAL and against FDA and USDA regulations to falsely label ANY food items for exactly what they are"

That in and of itself may be true but there can be some slick marketing. Like meats labled "nitrate free". Read the label again and check for celery juice or powder.
I don't know about all hydrolyzed vegetable protein but hydrolyzed soy protein is far worse than MSG. It can be made with sulfuric acid or genetically altered soy and has carcinogenic properties. You would probably have to consume mass quantities for that to be an issue but a lot of this frankenfood is in many products that we consume.
Both MSG and nitrates are naturally occurring chemicals that get way too much press compared the genetically altered ingredients in many products.

msg is like steroids for food... or any 'performance enhancing' drug...

Nitrates are totally different and arent added to food, they are a biproduct of the smoking and curing process.

The point I was telling the OP was that HVP's are not MSG, are not MSG replacers and arent advertised as such.

HVP's come in many different forms, from Corn Gluten, Wheat Gluten, Soy Protien ect. They are all chemically stripped and "hydrolyzed" to mimic other flavors. I dont condone using them, but when Vegans and Vegetarians want meat flavors(if you want a meat flavor just eat meat) that is a vegan way to get them and as of today the FDA and USDA still lets manufacturers call them "Natural".

I personally would rather use MSG, and I keep it at my home, but in the US the mass majority is afraid. Wait about 3 months and you will see that the potato chip market is going to take a HUGE hit with the release of the Achrylamide Study and its carcenogenic properties speaking of carcenogens. The FDA is going to put you into a mass panic and have everyone throwing away their potato chips because they are going to tell you that they will give you cancer. What they arent going to tell you is that the levels of achrylamide in chips is the same as it is in a loaf of bread. Are you going to stop buying bread now?

We could pick apart everything that is manufactured in a plant and find something wrong with it, but what it boils down to is most things are OK for you in moderation. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but that is true in all things. Good example, I quit smoking 2 years ago, emptied all the sweets and snacks out of the house before I did this and replaced them with carrots, celery and fruits and still managed to put on 35 lbs. I ate healthier at that point in my life than I ever had as an adult, but I over did it with fruits and veggies that were high in natural non reducing sugars, and carbs. Good for you but too much is too much.

Iconoclast, MSG is a naturally occuring product, it is no more a "performance enhancer" than salt is. PPL need to stop thinking its a chemical that is man made.

I hope no one is confusing nitrates and MSG. Celery and other vegetables can contain Nitrates. Celery juice and powder is often added to to skip around the FDA rules so they can advertise nitrate and nitrite free or "all Natural". Your body converts nitrates (Beets, lettuce, greens) to nitrites. Veggies can also give infants nitrite poisoning in some cases (google infant- spinach- nitrate). In either event the bit about false labeling and the USDA is subject to interpretation (IMO) and that was my only point. The example being the natural occurring nitrates in celery that is used in "nitrate free" food. There is a LOT of manipulation in mass produced food and marketing. I have much bigger things to worry about other than nitrates or MSG. I think most of us do.
BTW the Acrylamide yest is already out.

Survey Data on Acrylamide in Food: Individual Food Products

DuckFat, The acrylamide info you grabbed is the initial research. They are about to release the findings of the actual 5 year study done by the FDA, USDA and the initial Swedes that found it and how it effects ppl directly thru normal eating habits, not lab rats. This is going to rock the food world, I just came back from a conference and series of classes and this was one of the topics we discussed at length. The snack food and baking industries are currently on "red alert" waiting patiently to see the final report. If they release that acrylamide is thought to be a very highly carenogenic substance with direct correlation to several types of cancer the food industry in general is going to be in for a major shake up. We should know something before the end of the year.

Thanks for the heads up! I will watch out for that.

Monosodium glutamate is one of several forms of glutamic acid found in foods, in large part because glutamic acid is pervasive in nature, being an amino acid. Glutamic acid and its salts can also be present in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable proteins, autolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed yeast, yeast extract, soy extracts, and protein isolate, any one of which may appear as "spices" or "natural flavorings." The food additives disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate are usually used along with monosodium glutamate-containing ingredients, and provide a likely indicator of the presence of monosodium glutamate in a product. For this reason, the FDA considers labels such as "No MSG" or "No Added MSG" to be misleading if the food contains ingredients that are sources of free glutamate, such as hydrolyzed protein.
In 1993, the FDA proposed adding the phrase "(contains glutamate)" to the common or usual names of certain protein hydrolysates that contain substantial amounts of glutamate.
In the 2004 version of his book, On Food and Cooking, food scientist Harold McGee states that "[after many studies], toxicologists have concluded that MSG is a harmless ingredient for most people, even in large amounts."

CStanford, you cant label HVP, TVP, AYE, Torula Yeast, Brewers Yeast or Soy Protien Isolates as anything but what they are, and they definitely can not be labeled as spices or natural flavors. All of the above mentioned must be labeled according to label identity laws fromm either 05 or 06 which is when the great natural debates began. Mertaise or disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate often are labeled with MSG but are also used with sea salt to help and mimic the flavor and function of MSG. Mertaise is also being used less and less because of its label declarations.

HVP's usually use a combination of Soy protien, corn gluten and wheat gluten with salt to mimic and replace meat flavors in meat analogs, they all must be broken out on the labels.

Most experiments back in the 60s were done with MSG given in what they thought was a simple form. Cold and mixed in soda. This is how most testing was done. In the beginning what was never thought of was the high heat of wok cooking that MSG would be subject to. To this day it has never really been established. For more info there is a monosodium glut. association located somewhere in Georgia

MSG is pure poison for the body. It causes may health problems. Check out the research of Dr. Blaylock.In small doses it is not harmful but most food manufactures put msg in their food as an additive ingredient that stimulates a person appetite causing them to eat more because it keeps the hunger switch on past the point of satiation. Most restaurant use it in their food because of this.If a person were to add up the amount of MSG they consume in a day the amount a staggering. Today some consumers will not buy products with msg so the food companies have resorted to hiding it under different names. I have personal restricted MSG from my diet and have see a significant weight loss and my appetite has decreased.Scientist use MSG as a means to fatten rats that don't normally get fat. by injecting MSG into them at birth so they can study diabetes. Here is a partial list of symptoms: MSG causes Headaches, migraines, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, upset stomach, asthmatic attacks, skin rashes, heart palpitations,anxiety or panic attacks, shortness of breath, balance problems, heart attack like symptoms, allergy type symptoms, flushing, mood swings, behavioral disorders (especially in children and teens) mental confusion, runny nose, bags under the eyes, urinary and prostate problems, partial paralysis, mouth lesions and depression. In addition, there is some medical research linking MSG to Alzheimer's Disease, ALS (Lou Gehrig's), and Parkinson's.

Now I know what's wrong with me!! Here I just thought it was my job. :D Very interesting thread. It reminds me though of a time back in the '80s when Harvard and Yale both released results for studies they'd done on the relashionship of coffee and cancer. One said coffee caused cancer, one said it prevented it. Also, they told us butter was bad for us because of cholesterol. We should all eat margarine (trans fats anyone?). What happened? As a nation, our cholesterol went up, not down. I am very skeptical of any findings that are not iron-clad (which would be all of them) and the food police make me nervous. They get everybody in a panic over some half-baked idea, tell you what you should eat and then tell you 30 years later it's bad for you. Last time I checked, I'm not a rat (at least not physically) and how something affects rats may not be anything like how it would affect a human. Things that don't bother us can be deadly for dogs, for instance, and vice-versa. Can you imagine what the food police would do about chocolate if they'd tested it on dogs? Please, just label things and let people make up your own minds. Let's stop with banning everything. I often think of my garandmother. She grew up eating lard (cholesterol) and then used Crisco for baking in her last 45 0r 50 years (trans fats) because she liked the flavor better. She lived to be 97.