ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Cooking Equipment › Which is better, All Clad with copper core or Mauviel copperware?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Which is better, All Clad with copper core or Mauviel copperware? - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Mauviel also makes a 7 layer stainless called Mauviel M'Cook

Is that the one I should be interested in?

Also, does anyone have evxperience with Chef's Resource?

All Clad Cookware, Gourmet cookware, Cutlery, Shun Knives, Wusthof Knives Global Knives, Le Creuset, and More .

They are selling Mauviel on their site
post #32 of 58
I just got back from Paris, and having visited the E. Dehillerin store my wallet was much lighter. I bought the 4 smallest copper pots that they had and brought them home and gave them to my fiancee. I would have gotten more but they were really heavy and i wasn't sure how much my bag would weigh. I picked up the SS lined 2.5 mm Cuprinox. We both love to cook and are already making plans to un-register the All-Clad and order the rest of the pots from E. Dehillerin instead of waiting till the wedding.

The cost for the 4 was just about $600 (~400 euro) and I am waiting for a $100 to come back on my CC for VAT. If you have the chance to get to Paris the store is worth a stop, the people are friendly and decent to deal with. They have the typical attitude when you ask them to speak english but they went out of there way to help me figure out what would fit our situation.

Just to see how the All-Clad stood up we went to a William Sonoma outlet last night and I picked up a few comparable All-Clad pots in my hands and I just wasn't impressed. They seemed really flimsy compared to the Mauviel that I got in France. There is just something that feels great about them when you hold them. They feel like they are there to do some serious cooking. I may have bought way over my head, but I am of the mind that I'm only gonna buy pots once and I'm going to buy the best that I can.

Did I mention they look great hanging on the pot rack too. They make the cheapies ashamed and they will soon be retired to the trash. I know its not about looks, but it doesn't hurt. It's also a nice change to know I can use metal utensils in the pots and not worry about the lining.

I would highly recommend E. Dihillerin in France as a place to buy things. Does anyone know how to get a catalog? I looked on their website and I had no luck finding it. I bought two whisks while I was there and would have picked up more but I wasn't sure about the space.

Cheers
post #33 of 58
You can email them and ask for a quote. What I do when I'm in the store is I write down the item number for things that I might want in the future but don't want to purchase (or carry home) right now. Then when I'm home I can email them and ask for a quote using the item number.

As far as the attitude when you asked if they spoke English. It was probably from the fact that you asked. I just speak English the minute I walk in the door and they reply in English since they speak it as well or better than I. Jean and the rest of the crew have always been very nice to me.

A lot of things like whisks etc. you can get elsewhere. I use E. dehilerin for all of my copper and other specialty things. I checked the price of Staub and considering the horrible exchange rate it's not worth the trouble. I might save $30 on something that weighs a ton.
post #34 of 58
Chef Ed is right.

While it's true that quality stainless-lined cookware is good stuff when it comes to cooking, you may also buy multi-ply core pans with either stainless or aluminum exteriors, which will do the job as well as a heavy copper exterior pan, and do it for far less money.

The difference between copper and other high-performance metals isn't performance; at least not in any meaningful way. Whatever advantage it held disappeared when aluminum discs and cores came into the market.

It's real advantages are cosmetic and emotional. If you're not buying copper for the way it looks or how it makes you feel about yourself, you're probably wasting your money.

BDL
post #35 of 58
A friend of mine is a chef at Guy Savoy in Paris and sent me a photo of the kitchen. All of their cookware was Mauviel tin lined copper. Are you saying that one of most famous Michelin 3 starred restaurants buys copper because it makes them feel good?
post #36 of 58
I would say it has a lot to do with image in that case, yes.
post #37 of 58
Grant,

To do you the favor of a direct answer: Pretty much, yes.

I don't have a magic brain reader for perfect insight into other folks' motivation, but since you're asking me to guess they mostly use copper for two reasons:

First, because it's expensive and sets them apart from kitchens which can't or won't afford the extra expense -- in other words it makes them look good. Guy Savoy charges more than $400 per cover for their tasting menu. They must exhibit every indication of "no expense spared," possible in order to give their guests a sense of value.

(Have you read economics? Veblen wrote about this, and so did Giffen. Perhaps the "Giffen paradox" where a good is desirable primarly because it's expensive and vice versa, i.e., perceived value is independent of utility, is particularly interesting as it applies to home cooks.)

Second, because copper was the traditional material in good kitchens before the big change in materials. There was a time, not that long ago, when the pans then available did not perform as well as copper. Again, another "feel good" reason where appearance counts for more than any actual performance differences.

Also, you said that the restaurant used "tin-lined" copper. Do you think they use tin instead of stainless for emotional reasons? By your reasoning, we should get tin lined pans instead of stainless because if a Michelin starred restaurant uses tin, it must be better.

Copper is no longer the dominant material in the world's great kitchens. What does it mean to you if two different three stars use Demeyer multi-ply and Sitram stainless respectively?

Let's be adult about it. To the extent that copper might respond a hearbeat quicker to a flame change, and/or might spread the heat an RCH more evenly, in my experience the difference is not enough to make a noticeable different to my (discerning) eye and palate. The lack of difference extends to even the most subtle tasks like browning thin mushrooms or crisping the skin on thin fish. Frankly, if my life depended on the meal I'd just as soon use old Calphalon as copper.

Sorry, but I don't find your evidence, a description of a French postcard with Parisian kitchen porn, convincing. I prefer to rely on my own experience -- which includes plenty of copper, by the way -- and the experience of those whom I know cook at a professional level. But I don't expect my opinion to supercede yours, I'm just giving you the benefit of mine in order to defend Ed's honor.

Furthermore, I would never attempt to dissuade someone from buying copper who can afford it and has already made the decision. There are better things to do than rain on someone else's parade. And, if you believe that copper cookware makes you cook better, you're certainly entitled to your belief. And, more power to you. You seem to think an egg fries better in a Matfer copper/stainless pan than a Vollrath aluminum/stainless multi-ply. You're entitled to your opinion and your egg.

BDL
post #38 of 58

I believe so but you can pull up the Mauviel web site and take a look. :)
post #39 of 58
I love Dehillerin too. FYI on those new pots. Keeping copper shiny, if you wish to do do, requires Twinkle or an equivalent product. I buy Twinkle at a local hardware store, or try Sur La Table. I've heard Barkeep's Friend recommended too but have never tried it. Don't waste your time and money with lemon juice, ketchup, or similar homespun ways.

As for the performance advantage of copper, compared to a good stainless clad/aluminium core pan, my two cents is that it is exists but is subtle. I've made identical omelets (American-style) in my copper omelet pan and in an All-Clad steel pan, side by side, and the former came out more evenly colored while the latter was slightly mottled. Well, big deal. I use copper (about 50% of my cooking) because cooking is - sometimes - an aesthetic pleasure. When I'm simply banging out a quick meal I tend to use some old anodized aluminium pots that I've had for 20 years.

Oh, I much prefer the thicker 2.5mm stuff to the thinner brass handled stuff.
post #40 of 58
I have, and use daily, both the All Clad Cop-R-Chef and Mauviel Copper. Most of my All Clad is the older, copper exterior product, not the Copper Core, modern pieces. I have a few pieces of the newer model. My Mauviel is all the heavy, tinned version. In practical terms, I can't find any real difference between the two brands or approaches. Both are good looking, but more importantly, both perform well.
post #41 of 58
Not an even heating problem. Mottling is usually technique related. An uneven omelet surface, which probably occurred as you pushed the omelet around in order to get the raw egg on the top to run off to the hot pan surface. Another cause is butter that's hotter as opposed to cooler. Yet another cause is more, rather than less butter.

BDL
post #42 of 58
Thanks DuckFat. I actually handled a piece of Mauviel Copper/Stainless in a store. It was a little too heavy for me. I bought a piece of All Clad and a piece of Viking. The Viking was a little lighter than the Mauviel. The All Clad was flimsy. I couldn't even get my petite hand in the helper handles :rolleyes:

I returned the All Clad the next day

I love the Viking. It cooked really well and cleaned up amazingly.
post #43 of 58
I'm glad to hear you found what you like. I noticed some Viking cookware at Sur la Table recently that looked very nice. I hope it serves you well. :)
post #44 of 58
If you ever get tired of that Mauviel Windsor pot Sam you can send it to me. :peace:
post #45 of 58
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but I have been trying to order copper cookware- I want to get the Mauviel tin lined ones, from Dehillerin. I use the order form on their website, but I never get any reply. Is this the way I am supposed to do it, or something else.

I wish I could go to Paris, but for now thats not a possibility :(

Thanks.
post #46 of 58
I had a previous post, which did not show up. So excuse me if this is a repetition. I want to order some tin lined copper cookware from Dehillerin. I use the order form on their website, but I never get any reply. Is this the way I should do it, or something else(I cant go to Paris and get them personally, though I wish I could).


Thanks.
post #47 of 58
Thank you. I love it. So far, everything has turned out much better, even my morning oatmeal is creamier.

Clean-up is amazing. I let the oatmeal pot cool off for about an hour before washing it this morning and the pot cleaned as though it was non-stick.

Thanks so much for all your help and guidance
post #48 of 58
As I vaguely remember when ordering from them, I think that I needed to fax the order along with my signature and cc#.
post #49 of 58
Thanks for the info. I finally called them for a quote and got it. Its a huge difference as to what we spend in the US compared to their quotes, including shipping.
I am glad I found this forum.
post #50 of 58
You telephoned them? From where pray tell?
post #51 of 58
I don't understand when you say from where, but I called them from the US. They were really polite, in spite of my first question being "Good morning, do you understand English?"

I used the number they have on their website.

The minimum price that I would pay for the things that I need would have been $1835 excluding tax and shipping in the US, while I get them from E.Dehillerin for $1130 including shipping. I dont know how much customs duty I would have to pay, or if I have to pay.
post #52 of 58
I meant from which country are you telephoning.
post #53 of 58
I THINK the actual tariff for importing copper household goods for personal use is around 3% of the purchase price. But you really have to check.

The easiest way to do that is to contact the shipper at the US end. They'll be the ones who actually pay the duty. It's either already calculated and included in the shipping price quoted; or will be passed on to you in the form of a surcharge; or may be passed on as a surcharge if the actual duty exceeded the estimate. Anyway, they (presumably DHL, Fed-Ex or UPS) should have a schedule and be able to give you a close estimate.

Alternatively you can track it down on government websites; and good luck with that. But the shipper will collect, not the government; and there may be other tariffs which apply that you don't know enough to ask about. All in all, you're probably better off checking with the shipper.

In any case, plan on spending some quality phone time "on hold."

Good luck,
BDL
post #54 of 58
When I ordered my Mauviel from Dehillerin, I spent absolutely NO time on the phone discussing tariffs. Items were delivered by, as I faintly remember, FedEx. And in spite of any added tariffs, the overall cost was much cheaper than had the items been purchased from a retailer here in the U.S..
post #55 of 58
That's nice. I only made the suggestion in case mke cared about knowing what the tariff would be. It wasn't a comment on you, your suggestions, or your methods at all. If anything I wrote made it seemed that way, I apologize for creating the false impression.

BDL
post #56 of 58
No offense taken. Just stating that I never paid any attention to tariffs in the first place.
post #57 of 58
Thanks for the info about tariffs. I checked the US customs website and apparently its 3%. So that should not be a deal breaker either. I called FedEx-down time at work, have nothing else to do-(the lady that I talked to at Dehillerin said they would use FedEx) but they said they cant give me any estimate.
post #58 of 58

Mauviel - buying from Paris

Hi,

I wonder if you could help me. I am travelling to Paris over the next couple of weeks and was planning on purchasing some Mauviel Cuprinox Pro cookware.

Depending on what I decide to buy... I would be most grateful for some advice.

If I am bring items back in my suitcase or checking an extra item as luggage, when you arrive into the USA, do you declare the items you have purchased and pay taxes at customs.
Also if the items were being brought back and checked in, where abouts do you have to go to claim the VAT back at CDG airport. Do you need to show them the items you have purchased. (I know in the UK you must show the items you are claiming VAT refunds). I will have extra luggage allowance to ship a box with cookware.

Or is it a lot easier just to ship items back.

Can you purchase the Mauviel Cuprinox Pro cookware in 2.5mm copper with stainless steel handles.

What are you favourite Mauviel pieces.

Thank you in advance for any of your advice.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cooking Equipment
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food and Cooking Forums › Cooking Equipment › Which is better, All Clad with copper core or Mauviel copperware?