ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › Which Sabatier is Which Sabatier? What's a Sabatier Anyway?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Which Sabatier is Which Sabatier? What's a Sabatier Anyway? - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Hi all.

First of all, thanks to BDL for this explanation on Sabatier knives. This is a wonderfull slice of knowledge you're giving us. I was just wondering, where you get all those informations ? When I spoke with the TI boss, he told me he sometimes went to the US, on knives demonstrations I guess. Did you somehow meet him or some other Sabatier house representatives and get those things out of them ? Anyway, thanks a lot for all this, it's a real pleasure to read you !

Now, and I'm in a hurry so it will be a quick one, I'm sorry, I just wanted to come back on this:
I recently ( 3 weeks or so ) bought one of those canadian chef knife (8", even though I regret now it was not a bit taller ) and the last 1/5 of the blade was slightly out of the axis. Also one of the rivet (to hold the handle) was scratched. The knife went back to the factory this morning. I spoke to the seller for France ( not TI directly), and he told the company should take care of it. So actually yes, make sure your reseller gets it clear you want a straight knife, because it -could- be bended somehow.
I'll let you know how the knife came back (in a month or so because I won't be home before that. )

Regards,
GK
post #32 of 59
Thread Starter 
'allo GK,

Here in the states recent history has broken Sabatiers into two groups -- good (the best French manufactured knives) and bad (often manufactured in China or another Asian country). Not all Sabatier marques are widely sold here -- so often when we give advice we limit it to those companies which are not only good but available. If for no other reason, I restrict my recommendations to ETS Aine & Perrier (K-Sabatier), Thiers Issard (Sabatier ****Elephant, "Nogent," "Massif", and Sabatier Mexeur et Cie (Therias et L'Econome).

Diamant are among the "good Sabatiers" for sure. That said, I'm not a big fan of Sabatier stainless. In the US, you can get decent Japanese stainless for the same price, and excellent Japanese stainless for not too much more. An irony is that a lot of Japanese stainless, is actually Swedish steel, manufactured into French profile knives in Japan.

Additionally, most of the Diamant lines have square German (don't like) rather than cylindrical French style (like) bolsters, and one of them -- the one which is made from X50CrMoV15 is German profiled (really don't like) as well. So, if you have definite tastes about either like I do about both, you'll want to go carefully.

BDL
post #33 of 59

Hi BDL,

in my search for sabatier knowlegde i have stumpled upon you several times.

thank you for posting so much great stuff!

I resently went to paris, where I soon found E. dehillerin, one of the best shops to visit ever! I bought a small carbon paring knife, nogent style and I like it a lot.

It has made me regret that I did not bring home a chef's knife as well.

The nogents are not available of the nogent style, but as carbon steel with bolster.

Does anybody know about these? What kind of Sabatier are they? K-sab, four star of other? Of course they are only fitted with the Dehillerin name, but seemed like really neat knifes. I just hope to scrape a little money together during the holidays to buy one, ot two...

thanks in advance.

regards

David, Denmark

post #34 of 59

Can Some one tell me what degree the bevel on a Sabatier K 10 in Slicer is. I think 15 or 20 deg?

post #35 of 59

6 years and this thread is still getting some mileage.

 

Take your pick, depends only on what you want.  I think the K-Sabs are still relatively soft, so 15+ would be the practical range in that case.  I think that, in the case of professional level use/abuse, many would recommend you sharpen to 15 then give [about] 30deg microbevel on the side you are handed, ie, right side for righties.

 

 

 

Rick

post #36 of 59
Carbon or stainless? Anyway, the factory edge is weak and overly obtuse. Get rid of it, thin a bit. If you have the blade thin enough behind the edge the very edge angles don't matter too much as far as performance in everyday Western cuisine is concerned -- but make a lot of difference for edge retention. I tend to second Rick's suggestion to make an obtuse one-sided micro-bevel.
post #37 of 59

Cool, Thanks guys. I have a "High-Carbon Stainless Steel" I did thin the edge out a little bit, It is now SUPER sharp, and real nice. It feels like i could remove a spleen with it. Also, What do you guys have to say bout adjusting the bevel of a Japanese carbon Gyutou? Should it be done? Im just wondering. I have no problem with the bevel of mine at 70/30. I'm just curious, and learning about professional grade knives. 

post #38 of 59
Why would you change the geometry of a blade that works fine for you? You should just know that brand new knives often have weak edges, and/or are expected to be sharpened prior to use by the end-user or, for him, by his retailer
post #39 of 59

My Sabatiers, from '75 and earlier, THE best.  Just gotta' learn the bevel, grasshopper.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #40 of 59

Im not planning on adjusting the bevel.  Like I said, I'm just curious. Like whats the intention behind such a bevel?  What I do now about Japanese knives is that the knife flat on the back side to allow the chef more precision, and accuracy. (in which case I may have just answered that part of my question)  But, can it be adjusted by the user, for whatever the reason, OR will it render the knife useless? 

post #41 of 59


I'll Bet :-)

post #42 of 59
An asymmetric blade meant for a right-hander has its edge off-centered to the left. It makes thin slicing easier, and allows better food release on the right side. Changing it will work for a few sharpenings, but will eventually result in heavy steering and wedging. Stay with the existing geometry.
Edited by Benuser - 11/16/15 at 2:37pm
post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiggityMyke View Post

What I do now about Japanese knives is that the knife flat on the back side to allow the chef more precision, and accuracy. (in which case I may have just answered that part of my question)  But, can it be adjusted by the user, for whatever the reason, OR will it render the knife useless? 

Nobody on this thread is talking about single bevel traditional japanese knives. If you are not cutting fish or paper thin veg, get it out of your mind. Btw they are not flat on the back side, they are concave.

Asymmetric double bevel knives you can adjust the asymmetry but it can cause problems as Benuser said. Then again adjusting the angles is also the solution to those problems sometimes...
post #44 of 59

Ahhhh ok I see. Again, Im not planning on changing the bevel. I just like to ask a lot of questions to understand the "Why" of how and why things are made. Ie: Japanese knives.

post #45 of 59
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post


Nobody on this thread is talking about single bevel traditional japanese knives. If you are not cutting fish or paper thin veg, get it out of your mind. Btw they are not flat on the back side, they are concave.
 

 

Also for the asymmetrical grind as we are talking about here, the blade is not completely flat [on the flatter side], if you make it completely flat potatoes and such will of course stick it like a suction cup.

post #47 of 59

A bit of an aside -- I have some of the vintage Sabatier carbon steel knives from Lee Valley Tools. Though we bought them in the 1990s, the knives were found in storage, many hand-forged and dating back to the 1920s.   Very different from current knives. I really like them, glad we bought a few different styles and sizes. Some with rosewood or ebony handles, all with excellent blades. My grandfather was a butcher and I still have his old carbon steel knives. These Sabatiers remind me of him... and they work great!

 

Here's an article about Lee Valley's Sabatier knives.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/03/04/ent_223484.shtml#.VkqR7r-qjLl

post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer57 View Post
 

A bit of an aside -- I have some of the vintage Sabatier carbon steel knives from Lee Valley Tools. ...Some with rosewood or ebony handles, all with excellent blades..........Here's an article about Lee Valley's Sabatier knives.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/03/04/ent_223484.shtml#.VkqR7r-qjLl

 

I'm uncertain if those black handles are of ebony.  My Sabatiers purchased from the 1970s thru the 90s all have black handles made of man-made materials.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #49 of 59

My 12 inch Henkels purchased in '76 came with only a single bevel - on the right side of the blade.  It's meant therefore a right handed person and the bevel "shoves" the slice of meat further away from the blade as its being sliced.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #50 of 59

These

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post
 

 

I'm uncertain if those black handles are of ebony.  My Sabatiers purchased from the 1970s thru the 90s all have black handles made of man-made materials.

Mine are older and are wood, at least 3 different kinds of wood. Of course, the black ones might not be ebony, but definitely all wood. .

post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer57 View Post
 

These

Mine are older and are wood, at least 3 different kinds of wood. Of course, the black ones might not be ebony, but definitely all wood. .

 

The handles on the three knives to the right appear to be replacement handles.  I can't state for certain if the leftmost knife handle is a replacement.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #52 of 59

They're the original handles - that's how they made them in the 1920s and 1930s. Take a look at the article with some background info on these vintage knives - http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/03/04/ent_223484.shtml#.VkqR7r-qjLl

post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiggityMyke View Post

Can Some one tell me what degree the bevel on a Sabatier K 10 in Slicer is. I think 15 or 20 deg?
Start with cutting a relief bevel at some 10 degree, add a perhaps 15 degree or more edge and see how it works.
post #54 of 59

FWIW when it comes to honing the carbon steel Sabatier, what I do is this, a two-step process:

 

I'll alternate between using my Idahone ceramic hone and my much older steel hone made by Friedr. Ferder in Solingen, the former to "smoothen/hone" the cutting edge and the latter to rough up the edge a bit for further "honing".  This combination has worked great for me for the past few years as using the Idahone can do only so much honing until the edge needs further "roughing up" with the German steel hone.  They both complement each other with all of the research that's been done up to now.


Edited by kokopuffs - 11/25/15 at 11:59am

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #55 of 59

I have a new unopened SABATIER knive. It may have been purchased in the 70's. It has an elephant logo on the blade, and also on the 

handle. FRANCE is also on the blade.It has 4 stars and SABATIER XONI on it. The out side of the packaging states PERFECT BALANCE- FULL FORGED/ ONE PIECE CONSTRUCTION and a round stamped on that say's ROWOCO, and a picture of a chef.

Can you tell me anything about it. Black wood handle, Thank you

post #56 of 59
You have it backwards, seems a common error, it is actually read INOX, meaning stainless.



Rick
post #57 of 59

I am new to this website and have been buying knives from thrift shops.

 

A few weeks ago, I acquired a Sabatier carving knife that also needs some sharpening on the serrations. I would like to determine who made it.

 

There's not much information on the blade other than stamped "Hand Forged by Sabatier for Elizabeth David Ltd." and "Stainless France".  The handle (black) is melamine and has 3 evenly-spaced brass fasteners.  There is a Sabatier logo within an oval on the handle.

 

As for Elizabeh David, she was a British cooking writer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_David

 

Any idea which manufacturer it came from? 

 

 

 

post #58 of 59
It's a bread knife, don't use it for roasts. I guess it's a Lion Sabatier from the seventies. Expect the stainless steel to be very, very soft.
post #59 of 59

That "bread knife" is identical to the one I purchased in 2002 labeled Sabatier and it's made in China.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cooking Knife Reviews
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › Which Sabatier is Which Sabatier? What's a Sabatier Anyway?