Which Culinary/ Pastry/Baking Schools in Canada, France, Switzerland? - Page 3
Although it looks glamorous but Baking and pastry is very hard working carrier,
My humble advise is kindly go to your local Vancouver Island university (http://www.viu.ca/) (http://www2.viu.ca/calendar/tradesappliedtech/baking.asp) meet the head of bakery department, and get some advice from him/her.
If you have interest starting boutique as cake designer/artist then you may take specialization course from Bonny Gordon college (http://bonniegordoncollege.com/)
Wish you all the best.
Edited by Khurram - 4/5/14 at 5:45am
Dear Snow Goose: Kindly read this discussion it might help you taking your decision:
First of all, many thanks for helping and guiding so many of us here on this forum.
I too would like to seek out some help from you on this topic.
I'm considering to join the Professional Pastry Arts course at the international culinary institute http://www.internationalculinarycenter.com/category/culinary-and-pastry-courses/professional-pastry-arts-cake-and-bread/.
What are your thoughts on it and which campus would you recommend to girl coming to the US for the first time- Campbell, California or New York. I'm turning 25 this month and really want to make my career in baking and pastry arts before its too late.
I would highly appreciate your feedback.
Hi Khurram, All
Thanks for all of the previous replies.
I just wanted to ask you if you ended up going to Ferrandi back in 2011? if you did, how was your experience?
I'm in the same boat as most of us here, I'm looking for career change and i'm passionate about cooking and pastry in particular.
was considering the following schools
1- Frerrandi ....... very mixed review so far and not cheap
2- ENSP (cole National Supérieure de la Pâtisserie) in Yssingeaux, -----far away from paris, the program looks interesting but I'd rather to stay in paris and enjoy the whole experience while learning rather than just saying in small town.
3- Ecole Gastronomique Bellouet Conseil ----- my preferred choice so far as it has small classes and the reviews in general are good. However, all the classes for this year are fully booked.
I live in Melbourne/Australia and was looking for local options but I really want to do it in Paris.
Any advices are much appreciated.
PS: this is my first post here :)
I don't really know. I know for a fact that Le Cordon Bleu, (LCB) Culinary Institute of America (CIA), and Johnson and Wales have the highest reputations, (oh and Penn State ice cream is world famous), but I cannot really tell you which culinary schools are best, or which are the best value.
You might be curious to know but No I did not go to Frerrandi, never had required financial arrangements but i did not stop or limit myself,
I attempted more realistic approach according to my scenario I went local Northwest Culinary academy of Vancouver, small school but amazing instructors, I am very happy of my choice I did Pastry specialization (I have done Culinary program with The Arts Institute of Vancouver)
So basically I have completed my Baking & Culinary programs with in very reasonable budget and now I am preparing for my Red Seal challenge exam (final phase of what i want to achieve as an education endorsement)
I am quite busy to finalize my own business plan to start my carrier and follow my heart to create something unique and delightful cafe soon (God Willing)
I appreciate all of you folks asked me questions and we did very meaningful discussion hope we all learned something from each other.
All schools are good and contributing their efforts to teach at their best to their students to become valuable cooks and pastry chefs and to contribute country's economy
Follow your heart guys if you can afford to go CIA, LCB, Frerrandi, ENSP, Ecole Gastronomique, Institt Paul Bocuse or even your community school just begin your journey and rest will be history
As I said i am quite busy on few projects so might not be able to constant watch this site or answer every individual but my prayers are with you
Wish you all amazing bright future
All the best
Edited by Khurram - 6/10/15 at 12:36am
Just a quick note about LCB Ottawa, at least at the time I was there, was actually better funded than any other campus in the school. The head of curriculum worked out of that school and media relations for the whole chain was based in Ottawa. In my opinion you would be crazy to not take advantage of any stages or external work while at the school. The campus is in the heart of the embassy district of a national capitol, if you volunteer you have the opportunity to work with so many international chefs and be exposed to so many different kitchens, brigades, equipment...its a huge waste to not take advantage of that opportunity. Unless you want a diploma more than an education. Besides, might as well get used to 12 hours on your feet before your first day on your first career job...
LCB is very much a "you get out what you put in" environment. They wont hold your hand but if you show some interest and actually act serious about getting good, they will (by they, I mean, chef instructors) do anything for you.
i heard lenotre is a great school and has a wonderful baking/pastry program.. anyone heard anything?
i applied to ferrandi and did not get accepted because i was "too old". lol - im 40 - i had read on some blogs that the average age for students in france in this field was between 15 and 24 , so i called ferrandi to ask them and said i was 40- so the guy says" are you exactly 40" lmao! i said yes i am and ive probably never felt old up until now- anyhow long story short one guy said i was old then he messaged back saying i spoke to the "admissions committee and they said send the application money and its ok-i should have known they just wanted the $$ anyhow what a waste of my time! so im looking into other options for 'senior' or 'over the hill' baking pastry programs in france :)- any help would be appreciated... since im only getting older! :)))
so far ive narrowed it down to ESNP, lenotre or bellouet conseil ....
help help help.. :)
I went to ENSP. Great school, nice location, great experience. I would recommend it. There were people of all ages there, from 18-54 so I think you would fit in just fine. I went when I was 32. I am still in contact with a few of my friends that I met there so that is a good thing to have as well.
My dear Nat Osman: No, 40 is not too old
My first impression: you are just taking it seriously and feeling offended (unnecessarily) its just your own mind telling you "you are too old for schooling" other wise it was mere normal conversation, sometimes what happens on other side to fill the break time any unprofessional person can hold inquiry seat it could be any student or someone from finance and don't know how to response on certain questions.
What is your waste of time? did they urge you to call them? no silly its you who call them and prominently pointed about your age other wise its not written in their policy no one 40 or over can be admitted as student.
My suggestion: majority of culinary/pastry schools work for profit so they have to fill their seats to run the business, where ever you go which ever school you pick they will be looking deep in your pocket, you will be paying more or less same fees and studying more or less same curriculum (depends on length of the program). However be prepare for painful times when your younger fellow students will discriminate you on age (or race basis - if this applies to you), trust me it will happen you cannot escape these moments.
You mentioned the average age for students in France in this field is between 15 and 24, but its for regular students, under continuity of studies, means after grade 8 they can go straight into their chosen field. it doesn't mean anyone over 25 cannot or should not adopt culinary field. you read, understood and extracted this info absolutely wrong way or your own way.
Anyways i request you to adopt positive behavior don't get offended on minor things, stand strong, try to go your local community school/college then you will understand your surroundings better and chances are you will feel offended way less than feeling offended in highly paid school in France.
You still can learn French from alliance francaise and have pastry diploma from local school and feel fancy, Save some money travel France and seek some short work experience (voluntarily), its Indeed a great achievement in your age, what's the difference?
Yeah you are getting old but you may turn yourself in Gold if you behave and stay strong
All the best.
Edited by Khurram - 9/29/15 at 6:20pm
Dear Nat Osman.
I read you comment about you not getting into Ferrandi because your age, I'm older than you. I went to Ferrandi last June for the training weeks. Your age is not a factor of getting or not into a school. Do what ever you want to do and don't let your age getting in your way.
Thank you for your wonderful comforting encouraging words -
@nat osman The answer to that is YES! Although most culinary schools are over-priced. The smart ones go to community collages or tech schools that offer these courses as they understand the industry does NOT CARE what school you went to, it cares on whether you can do the job asked. As a former business owner of a pastry shop and ENSP alumni I can tell you that I would not hire someone because they went to certain schools and had a bunch of certificates.......that was irrelevant. I hired people based on their ability to do the job asked and the attitude and aptitude to which they applied themselves. I mad them stage to see their work ethic, listening/communication skills, and their basic skills. They rest I can teach them.
You are going out there spending WAY TOO MUCH on schooling and theory and not enough time getting hands on pastry/ baking/ life experience........this approach you have going is going to backfire on you!
how did you like ENSP ? It just didn't work out time and feasibility wise for me, but it looks like a great hands on experience -
ENSP is a good school. They are not of an extremely high calibre when it comes to the equipment setup however, their teachers are top notch in their field. I had the opportunity to apprentice at some of the best pastry places in the business (partly to do with my approach to the apprenticeship). Their reputation carries a certain amount of weight for apprenticeship when you come from this school so that was a bonus.
Knowledge can backfire if one is all in the head and has never applied that knowledge in real world applications. I am not talking school oriented practice in the kitchens, I am talking about real world, real pastry shop experience. I am just giving you a head's up that when you get out in the industry after taking all that schooling, you will still have to start at the bottom in the dish pit, sweeping/mopping and basic organization for a while until they feel comfortable about your work ethic (this is unless you have had prior food industry kitchen experience). This applies for both young and older people, age is not recognized unless it becomes a hinderance to the job at hand.
Ecole bellouet conseil + LCB pastry diploma + short bread at ENSP: something very unusual
I do wish you great great luck but at the same time rolling my head, You really need to make a pause and have a deep breath and think again (Please read Fablesable comments "this approach you have going is going to backfire on you! "), I do have same concerns..... and he meant "financially back fire you" also remember knowledge is great as long as you absorb it and use it/apply it on daily life, (absorb & practically APPLY).
During 12 weeks of bellouet conseil diploma program you will be touching all the major components of patisserie work, I hope you also taking 2 months of apprentice (and paying 11,760 euros as tuition fees only) so then why LCB before or afterwards? At Bellouet majority of your fellow students will be Asians (Japanese, Korean and Chinese) and they are nice, mellow companions so hopefully you have good time ; )
I don't know how you come up tailoring this program and how you will be financing but my question is what is the REAL-real goal to achieve?
I highly recommend you go and meet some industry people and freely talk about your goals, concerns and make a notes and think again before began your journey (or blow your money-if its appropriate to say)
Edited by Khurram - 9/29/15 at 7:04pm
I'm planning a career change in two or three years, when I'll hit 40... Do you guys think my age could hurt chances of getting the best internships through Ferrandi? Like they save spots on the 3-stars for the young folks?
Also, in case after the course I decide to stay for a while in France (have EU citizenship) what kind of wages can I expect?
Finally, I intend to learn French over the next couple of years, but I'm not sure it will be enough to have full classes in French. So I'm not sure what will be my options, but right now I'm considering:
Ferrandi - Intensive Professional Program in French Cuisine (5 months + 3 to 6 month internship)
Lenôtre - Master Class (28 weeks) IN FRENCH ONLY
Institut Paul Bocuse - Cuisine Française Authentique, Méditerranéenne et Contemporaine (2 weeks) IN FRENCH ONLY
Alain Ducasse Education - Culinary Arts Diploma (5 months + 3 months internship)
Could you please comment on these options?
(Edited to add Alain Ducasse)
Edited by steaktartare - 11/18/15 at 5:29am