or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

pasta puttanesca

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hello. If using pancetta in pasta puttanesca, is it better to keep it sliced thin or thick? Also, if pancetta is salty, is it better to opt for bacon? Thanks.
post #2 of 27
Puttanesca normally uses anchovies and no pancetta. So are you looking for something in that style but substituting or do you want a traditional puttanesca?
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
post #3 of 27
No pancetta in puttanesca! If you want a spicy pancetta sauce try "amatriciana" -the savory and sweet spices of good pancetta will get lost in all the briny goodness of your puttanesca.

A french chef looks at a dish and thinks about what he can add to make it better, An Italian Chef looks at the same dish and thinks about what he can take away.

but the real question is what type of pasta?
nel maiale, tutto e buono!
Reply
nel maiale, tutto e buono!
Reply
post #4 of 27
They're right: no pancetta in puttanesca.

Are you maybe thinking of carbonara* (spaghetti with eggs and cheese and pancetta)? If so, it doesn't much matter: if you have thick-cut, cut it into cubes or sticks. If you have thin, cut into shreds. It will work either way, although the thicker bits will take a little longer to cook.

As for the salt question, I find that pancetta tends to be less salty than American bacon. Plus, most bacons are too heavily smoked to allow a proper balance of flavors in carbonara. If you do choose to use bacon, you might want to blanch it first (cook it very briefly in boiling water, then drain) to remove some of the salt and smokiness. Of course, you can do that with pancetta, too, to remove salt. But to my palate, at least, that's not necessary for pancetta.

*Of course, now we can have a debate over cream or no cream in carbonara. :lol: But let's do that in a separate thread. :peace:
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #5 of 27
Cream in carbonara? Noooooooooooooooooooooo :lol:
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #6 of 27
Cream in carbonara?
Same argument as cream in Alfredo, methinks.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Reply
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Reply
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
My mind went. I meant amatriciana. I'm making puttanesca for a vegetarian (who can eat anchovies).
post #8 of 27
tomatoes, garlic, onion, capers, anchovies, pepper flakes, calamata olives, basil, evo......is that what we're saying puttenesca is?
cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
post #9 of 27
Off the top of my head, yes that looks right.
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
Reply
post #10 of 27
Other than specifying kalamata olives, which are Greek, that's a down the line and straight-forward ingredient list. The kalamatas would probably actually work darn well.

For some reason, I'm having a strong urge to make it and put it on top of a Mediterranean type bass, like bronzini.

BDL
post #11 of 27
This should be another thread too, I suppose (or maybe it's already been done?). It's a major annoyance to me ---

I'm not vegetarian. If I were, however, I would. not be eating animal flesh of any sort. Your friend is not a true rvegetarian. S/he can rightly be called a "pescitarian".
"The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
 
Reply
"The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
 
Reply
post #12 of 27
Oh, no: Alfredo is cream, butter, Parmesan, S&P. Definitely cream in Alfredo. It's eggs (or just yolks) that are questionable there.

I hear you, amazingrace. :mad: But I've long since given up on getting upset over that. One of my best friends describes herself as a vegetarian, but she eats seafood. Oh, and foie gras, sometimes. :p I guess it's easier for people to label themselves that way rather than go through the whole "Well, I don't eat ONLY vegetables and fruits, maybe some eggs and dairy, so I guess then I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian, I just don't eat meat from four- or two-legged animals, but I do eat fish (just not the kinds I don't like, like mussels), so I'll just pretend I'm a vegetarian because that's hipper anyway." :lol:
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #13 of 27

No Cream in Alfredo

NO CREAM in Alfredo, at least not a true Alfredo, at least not the Alfredo that Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks fell in love with on their honeymoon when they dined frequently at Alfredo's in Rome.

The "real" Alfredo is just an al burro, with extra technique. I.e., you really, really, really and truly cream the butter; then really, really, really and truly incorporate the cheese. The heat of the fettuccine and perhaps a splash of the cooking water is the only cooking it gets. The "sauce" and the pasta should always be mixed tableside.

The creaming and incorporation of the cheese have to be so thorough that the sauce is an emulsion which holds together even as it melts.

The story of that Alfredo, from the lineal descendant of the Roman restaurant is all over the net. So is the recipe, for that matter.

It's a very matrimonial story, romantic really. To cut it short, when young Signora Alfredo got pregnant for the first time, she had a hard time holding anything down. Signor Alfredo made the most digestible and calorie laden thing he could imagine; and she liked it!

Not too long afterwards, the PickFair couple spent part of their honeymoon (the most well-covered event to that point in the century) in Rome. They ate at Alfredo's and fell in love with the dish and the Alfredos; and continued to eat there frequently. When the couple left Rome they gave Alfredo a pair of golden spoons for the tableside mixing.

I went to Rome for the first time in 1963, and was taken to eat at the famous Alfredo's. We had fettuccine (or was it tagliatelle?) Alfredo and I still remember those spoons.

Maybe there's another Alfredo somewhere else who did use cream. Quien sabe? No one appointed me the keeper of Alfredo authenticity but I do love the original dish and the associated story.

I've done the popular US variations with cream, and even with cream and egg, and while they have their charms, neither can hold a candle to the original. The best you can say is that they're less effort if you're not using a food processor, and they're stable too.

On the other hand, I've done some lighter plays on Alfredo like whipping cream almost to the butter stage, whipping a dry cheese like cotija in it, and melting that in the pasta -- which have worked very well.

BDL
post #14 of 27
I realize that's the standard here in the US, in this day and age.
And it's how I make it myself.
But, there is no cream in the classic preparation.
However, I believe the original used butter with a higher fat content, making it a creamier than using your typical US butter.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Reply
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Reply
post #15 of 27
I use the condensed cream in cryovac container from Italy......
ummmmm whipped butter and parm over pasta, yeah I'd eat that....
There's an Italian egg pasta that is extrodinary, picked it up @ Southern Seasons in Carolina....tried to find more, not having any luck.
Ivana maroni, La Pasta di campofilone, maltagliati...paid about $1 an oz and it is soooo worth every penny.
cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
post #16 of 27
Its a general misconception that Italian pasta sauces are either cream or tomato based, Maybe in American-Italian food, but true Italian cuisine has a vast amount of pasta preparations that use neither.

You would be surprised how useful a liaison pasta water can be, it's full of starch.
-fresh gnocchi tossed in crumbled gorgonzola, butter and pasta water will yield a sauce so creamy you'd swear it has cream in it, but no.

and to back up earlier posts:
Carbonara: pancetta, parmesan, a splash of pasta water and an egg, -parsley or chili flake is optional

Alfredo: butter, parmesan and pasta water (although I really like pecorino)

"Al Tartuffo" fresh parpardelle, truffle oil, butter, parmesan and pasta water (one of my personal favorites!)

Although, I must confess, at my restaurants our pasta water is typically quite salty -so you didn't want to use a lot of it in your dishes. To make up for the starch we would make a very weak "beurre manie" 4 parts butter to 1 part 00 flour, which we would all affectionately referred to as "magic butter".
When added to a pasta sauce, it thickens it just a little, rather than turning it into gravy.
nel maiale, tutto e buono!
Reply
nel maiale, tutto e buono!
Reply
post #17 of 27
I said cream in Alfredo because Santa Marcella (that is, Marcella Hazan) says of her recipe for Cream and Butter Sauce:
She is one of my culinary goddesses, and if she says it, I believe it. :lol:

For the record, she also has a recipe for Butter and Parmesan Cheese Sauce, which is indeed just butter and cheese as buonaboy mentions. (I do diverge from her on this, though: like buonaboy, I would loosen it with a little pasta cooking water if necessary.)
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #18 of 27
You are 100% right no cream in Aldredo and no Panchetta in Putinesca. Many of these dishes were What I call Frenchized or Americanized. Take Bolonaisse, in North Italy near French border it has cream added, down southern tip no cream they would think you have gone mad. Over here hardly anybody uses egg or egg yolk in Alfredo (salmonella fear I guess) over there they do. Tomato sauce in Sicily or to Tony Soprano's crew is gravy here it is sauce>>?????Every place different as you know.
BDL ..:chef: Good Yuntiv and a Healthy one
CHEFED
Reply
CHEFED
Reply
post #19 of 27
BDL -- I had no idea you were old enough to have dined with Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks! ;)
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #20 of 27
Are you kidding ?? BDL was guest Maitre D at Alfredos in Rome.
CHEFED
Reply
CHEFED
Reply
post #21 of 27
FOH? Me? Not likely, unless bouncer counts.

BDL
post #22 of 27
I presume you mean Bolognese, that is, a ragù in the style of Bologna. Ah, Bologna la grassa -- Bologna the fat, quite a good distance from the French border, actually -- of which it is said: "Every proper Bolognese [person who comes from Bologna] is secure in his or her own formula for constructing this most fundamental Emilian sauce, each of them holding tightly to an inviolable and sacred method." Veal, pork, porcini, milk, cream, tomato, carrots: Yes? No? Never? Don't be ridiculous. Especially if you, like me, are an American not even distantly related to Italia.

In other words, no matter what you or I or anyone can find in a book, there is no absolute version of any recipe. Oh, sure, there's la ricetta ufficiale della Camera di Commercio Industria Artigianato e Agricoltura di Bologna which -- ahem -- includes cream or milk. But does that mean it is the only way it will be done? Nonsense. So all of these "Oh that should NEVER include cream" or "That ALWAYS has egg yolks" is just trying to show off that you have a book you can quote. But it does not prove anything other than you can read. Maybe.
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #23 of 27
The subject of authenticity is always an interesting one. There's always a place where the recipe started, and many twists, some more authentic than others. Go to a haute cuisine restaurant in France today and order a veloute, chances are you won't find any roux or cream in it.

In fact, an Italian reading this thread would probably be laughing at the idea of using pancetta in Carbonara or All'Amatriciana: certainly not an "authentic" choice by any means.
post #24 of 27
You are right every family has their own conception of right or wrong and how to, thats why they get into arguments at the dinner table. There are 5 to 10 stories about the orgin and prep of Marinara, who is to say which is correct .I do know that originally it was strictly used for seafood.
CHEFED
Reply
CHEFED
Reply
post #25 of 27
Hi all,

On the topic of Bolognese, I've tried a few versions and all were quite good. But recently I made the Ragu alla Bolognese that was approved by the Accademia Italiana della Cucina.

All the versions that I tried previous to this were quite good...I don't have a problem with cooking variations of a dish at all. Sometimes we need to tailor the recipe to ourselves! But this Ragu all Bolognese recipe was SOOOOOOO good. I made it with fresh made tagliatelle.



I made the recipe at work and I'm wanting to make it at home for my wife, but I'd like to wait until I get some of the new harvested olive oil from Italy first. I know it sounds silly to wait...but I'll be picking some new harvest olive oil any day now and I'd like to wait for the olio nuovo and homemade bread.

the recipe is really tasty!

Ragu alla Bolognese Suzanne, I believe this may be the same (or similar) recipe to the link in your post.

enjoy your food!
dan

Edit:strike that
post #26 of 27
GF -- that might be the same recipe, yes.

The point I've been trying to make is that there is no single "authentic" or even "classic" version of any dish, and that anyone who claims to know THE "authentic" anything only knows one version of many. Unless, of course, the dish really is the creation of the person making the claim. Even then it might just be a variation on a long-forgotten theme. (And I don't hold much store in any "traditional" dish having sprung like Athena from the brow of some single cook, somewhere. Escoffier didn't invent everything; he just wrote everything down. :lol:)

If I am guilty of claiming that the recipes I reference are the only "authentic" versions of a dish, I deserve to get my keyboard slapped. :laser:

Think about it: most "traditional" or "classic" dishes were originally created from what was available, using the available technology, and based on someone's taste preferences. Likewise, variations were based on what the person cooking had, and what that person remembered. Even following a recipe "to the letter" will produce a different version every time because nothing is ever the same -- not the ingredients, not the weather, not the cook. Well, maybe if you're making something out of a bunch of manufactured chemicals, it will be almost the same each time; but try as you might to limit the variables, they will still exist.
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
Reply
post #27 of 27
Ed... to an Italian... this is OH so true!! Authentic is how MAMA made it! However, the biggest discussion, even among Bolognians is what is the "official' Bolognese sauce. Most will agree it does take some cream but only at the finish. The reality is, it's a meat based sauce that every Italian kitchen makes.

As I have many friends in Italy, including those running cooking schools, are chefs or just home cooks, every one will give you a different opinion on the authenticity but there are some consistencies....

Bolognese is made with meat.
Lasagna is not made with ricotta but bechamel. (it makes it lighter and much more flavorful)
Each region's cooking in Italy is the best. In Italy, when they go out for dinner, they choose a different regions cooking as it is as different to us as Mexican, Chinese and BBQ. I've been in quite a few regions and, to be honest, I love them all and have no favorites.

My mantra... just bring it on and keep the wine carafe full!!!:lol:

Buono anno nuovo a tutti!! Happy New Year to everyone!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Food & Cooking