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Clearly better taste?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I'm sort of starting to get used to the new look of the forums.

Tonight I made some soup based on the oodles of turkey stock I made from the remains of the Christmas feasts with the family.  It was a nice, rich reddish brown color, reminiscient of some of the heavier bodied red ales we used to brew.  And quite clear, no cloudiness.

On another thread regarding boiling and simmering there has been some talk of making stock.  Bringing a stock to a boil then reducing the heat tends to make it cloudy.  On the days I make my stock I usually have the time to bring it up to a simmering steep without hitting a boil.

But is there really any detecable difference in flavor between a clear stock and a slightly cloudy one, or is it all cosmetics?

And while we're at it, what's the difference between a stock and a broth


mjb.
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post #2 of 8
I think the difference between a stock and a broth was covered in another thread - in my experience the only difference is salt. But others said that stock is made with bones, broth is made with meat. I don't subscribe to that point of view because IMO you can make both stock and/or broth with bones only, meat ony, or any combination of both.

But basically stock is a base for a sauce, a soup, a dish etc.... while broth is a dish in and of itself - hence the presence of salt.

As for cloudy vs taste - IMO many of the operations that make a stock very clear also make it less flavorful (i.e. blanching bones before starting). So with that in mind, a cloudier stock is usually more tasty - I'm not talking about making the stock cloudy because of poor technique such as not leaving the stock alone while it's brewing etc...

Having said that, there are sooo many exceptions and the usage of the words seem to be so interchangeable that I'm not sure of the value of such as "rule" anyway.
post #3 of 8
I don't subscribe to that point of view

French Fries, as a home cook, everything you say is dead-on. In practical terms, "stock" and "broth" are used as synonyms.

But now that you're a student, you do need to know the "rules" and technical differences. The differences between stocks and broths are not a matter of opinion or point of view. Your teachers will expect you to understand those differences.

Once you're done with school you can go back to ignoring them.
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #4 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post

I don't subscribe to that point of view

French Fries, as a home cook, everything you say is dead-on. In practical terms, "stock" and "broth" are used as synonyms.

But now that you're a student, you do need to know the "rules" and technical differences. The differences between stocks and broths are not a matter of opinion or point of view. Your teachers will expect you to understand those differences.

Once you're done with school you can go back to ignoring them.

I agree with you - however when Chef asked us what the difference between stock and broth is, I answered "salt", and she said "exactly: that's the only difference: salt". So I guess my point of view matches hers (on that topic at least)!

Quote:
The differences between stocks and broths are not a matter of opinion or point of view. Your teachers will expect you to understand those differences.
Wait... so.. what are they? And who defines them?
Edited by French Fries - 2/24/10 at 8:01pm
post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamfat View Post

On another thread regarding boiling and simmering there has been some talk of making stock.  Bringing a stock to a boil then reducing the heat tends to make it cloudy.  On the days I make my stock I usually have the time to bring it up to a simmering steep without hitting a boil.

But is there really any detecable difference in flavor between a clear stock and a slightly cloudy one, or is it all cosmetics?


 


It's more than just cosmetics.  While one may argue that a little emulsified fat in the stock can add flavor, more than just fat gets added to the liquid when it's brought to a boil.  Dirt, scum, and impurites are mixed into the emulsion and degrade the taste of the stock.  There's a definite "murkiness" to the stock, both in color and taste, when the liquid boils, and more so when the boil occurs before major skimming.

Loretta Keller of Coco5000 bistro in San Francisco says, "The worst thing you can do to stock is to boil it,  especially if you haven't skimmed it carefully. You'll ruin it by emulsifying it," says the chef. "The fat and impurities will mix with the broth, and then you're done."

Edited by Schmoozer - 2/24/10 at 8:25pm
Schmoozer
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post #6 of 8
FrenchFries, the short answer is:

1. Broths are made with meat, stocks are made with bones only.
2. Broths are a finished product. That is, they can be eaten as is. Stocks are an intermediate step, used to make other products such as sauces and soups.

and something that's rarely discussed, maybe because it's self-evident:

3. Broths can be a by-product of another dish. Stocks are always made from scratch.
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #7 of 8
Thanks for replying KYHeirloomer.

I had left the previous long thread debating stocks vs broths with the impression that nobody really agreed - but your definition makes sense, especially considering #3. I suppose with any "rule" in the kitchen there are many exceptions, which is why I didn't really accept the meat/bones distinction: many chefs use very meaty bones such as shanks, or even meat, to make stock, and I found there is such a thing as a "bone broth" - probably a rarity, but the recipe is in the Larousse Gastronomique.
post #8 of 8
Well, as I said, FF, out in the world you do what you want (or, actually, what Chef wants). But in school you go with the facts as they exist.
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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